this post was submitted on 17 Jun 2023

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The Reddit Blackout Is Breaking Reddit (www.wired.com)

submitted 1 year ago by sabbah@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world

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[–] mightyfoolish@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I hate that the main issue reported is third party apps are dying. That's a side effect, not the main issue.

The main issue is the access of the reddit's data. We all built that. The volunteers who gave all of those hours to supervise that content is the real MVPs of reddit. Not the useless execs. The real founder of reddit has been gone for a while now (he was a true freedom fighter of access to knowledge).

The execs of reddit realize two main things. The first is the known idea that third party apps have the option to change how reddit looks to the user (including blocking ads). The other is that academic types and AI builders could use the content that we cultivated together in order to build datasets to train AI. The reddit execs know groups like these would be willing to pay extra for our data.

R.I.P. Aaron Swartz. It's been 10 years and these are the issues you warned about and fought against.

[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

For me its just the third party apps that I care about

[–] kat@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

I hope this whole ordeal, no matter how it goes down, ends up being a landmark for "social media as a monopoly". I think there's been a lot of talk about this in past years, with little real interest, because people are more interested in their next dopamine fix no matter how much they say they care about their data being sold. I hope this is the push we need to start considering these things for real. Most of us are uncomfortable with personal information being sold to 3rd parties, or knowing that users of these sites are technically the product being sold. It's more weird and uncomfortable knowing the CEO and other execs are throwing a tantrum because user data and user submissions AREN'T being generated for them to sell to earn money to buy some yachts and golf courses.

Should social media be a public commodity, same way a community center or library is? Something paid for by taxes and regulated by government. I think it's interesting in concept but odd to consider once you get into government censorship and surveillance aspects. Not a good idea either.

[–] Morningcoffee@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

I think the older core of reddit has always viewed itself as a bottom-up community, rather than a social media platform. Reddit won't die for now, but this is a sobering wakeup call from that idea.

Reddit is no freehaven, it's now just another company, and slowly everyone on it will get squeezed into the businessmold...

[–] Domriso@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I certainly never viewed it as a social media site. I joined it as a link aggregator and a way to find information on topics I thought were interesting, not make friends. It always seems odd to me when people refer to it as a social media site.

[–] eee@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Everything that I liked about reddit was the fact that it was NOT social media. Everything they've done in the last decade (avatars and all that), I've religiously ignored.

[–] HidingUnderHats@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Lol, I told my friend to join Lemmy and he immediately asked how to friend me. Pls no

[–] swnt@feddit.de 2 points 1 year ago

Indeed. Reddit is knowb as the site where you talk with strangers on things you care about - whereas Facebook is talking with people you know about things you don't care about.

[–] anonionfinelyminced@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago

Hmmm. Maybe it's intentional. A purge. Flush out the old crowd with their adblockers and their nonsense ideas about "free speech," and whoever stays -- out of ignorance or compliance -- is left with the ad-ridden hellscape that is the new interface and the official app.

[–] mrbubblesort@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Reddit *still is * a bottom-up community, that's why all their monetization efforts never worked and there's so much backlash against the API changes. All of the content and value on the site is created by the users and mods. Reddit the company doesn't own that, and redditors take offense at management's attempts to take advantage of the users' free efforts for their own gain.

What Huffman and Reddit should have done was think long term and set up a Wikipedia-like entity that could have ensured the health and growth of the site while only taking a modest cut. Instead they tried to pump up the value and cash out with an IPO, and when that likely fails, they'll end up with nothing.

[–] tCvdMEgPPKOefAcZ@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

I didnt know about lemmy or any of these federated alternatives and couldnt help but go back a few times. old habbits....i did already delete my account, so im just looking at top of popular and its all shit subs posting shit nobody cares about.

[–] yesinmybackyard@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Mir offers another business metaphor for the tension on Reddit: “If you have a really good music venue, but you break relations with every notable artist, you’re not going to be a very successful venue. You need to really prioritize the needs of the folks providing the value on your platform.”

Honestly this sums it up pretty well

[–] postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Its a better analogy that Reddit pissed off the roadies, ushers, ticket takers, and other crew because they wanted 300% of the concession stand's gross take.

[–] papertowels@lemmy.one 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Additionally, it's not even that good of a venue.

I was talking to my friend about this and asked if he could point out a single improvement that reddit has made in the last decade that hadn't been about monetization, since I exclusively use old.reddit.com and third party apps, I certainly couldn't. We couldn't come up with anything...

[–] Lanfordr@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

There's nothing. It's been slowly getting more and more shitty for years. It's just been happening so slowly that there wasn't a breaking point where most of us left until now.

I've been casually looking for an alternative for years, because the content has gotten so low effort. There just hasn't been any good alternatives. I tried Voat, but that got over run with racists and Trumpers almost from the jump.

Lemmy is the first thing I've found that seems half decent and it needs to triple ot quadruple it's engaged user base to really have a shot. Too many posts with no comments or very few. What made reddit special was the comments and interactions. I have hope lemmy can get there, it just needs way more users to do so.

[–] MrVilliam@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

What made reddit special was the comments and interactions.

And in the past few months, I found several instances of karma farmers copying a good comment that was low in the thread and pasting it as a reply to one of the top comments to get visibility and upvotes. Idk if it was bots or people with no life, but I bet shit like that was happening much more than we realized, vastly padding engagement. Personally, I'd rather have a smaller and more authentic community here than disingenuous reposts, shitposts, botposts, trollposts, and general farming like what many subreddits became. I like that this platform seems to have much more thoughtful engagement between users who feel more like people than some cardboard cutout. I think we all can learn and grow as people by sincerely engaging in real discourse in the serious communities, and have interesting OC in less serious ones that are just about memes or storytelling or whatever.

I agree that interactions are special, and I agree that Lemmy needs more users, but I'm wary of bloating the userbase and packing garbage into here. I'd like to see a little growth, and give lurkers a reason to engage in an inviting community that isn't hostile.

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[–] eee@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I agree. Lemmy is really promising but not quite at the critical mass yet. I've been trying to post more myself but we need consistentand sustained activity.

[–] macarthur_park@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

I think we’re gonna get there fairly soon. Lemmy.world only started on June 1. I joined a week ago when there were 1-2k users. Now there’s almost 30k.

[–] postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

I bet reddit corporate is shitting bricks over chatgpt. They want to get their IPO and be able to sell their shares before AI upends online discussion. AI Bots are going to be a big deal, not in a good way.

[–] CptOblivius@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Actions have consequences.

[–] nicholas@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Why did everyone migrate here if we’re just going to talk about reddit all day? Getting sick of every other post being about the other website.

[–] GizmoLion@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

It's a big, relevant, ongoing event which affects the fediverse directly. There's a huge influx of new users who were recently burned by it who would normally go to "the other website" to discuss, but no longer do.

Would you prefer they go back, or is there a place here for those displaced?

[–] lynny@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Anyone who has been online long enough has learned to deal with the fact that sites and communities they love almost never stay the same over enough time. Even here on the Fediverse we already have situations like Beehaw defederating.

[–] eee@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I still think that's one of the most damaging events to the success of the fediverse over the past week

[–] lynny@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

People, including admins, have a right to make dumb decisions. They can be unfortunate, but it's better to allow dumb decisions than to have a singular, benevolent ruler like Spez pre-2023.

[–] exscape@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Yet another article that (knowingly or not) frames it as "people don't want to pay for the API":

Reddit charging for access to its API is also about more than just third-party clients, Bruckman says. A move like this has angered so many people on Reddit because it feels like a betrayal of the community’s trust.

No mention that several third-party app creators are fine with paying for API access, as long as they can build a business model around the pricing.

[–] HuddaBudda@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

The more this drags on, the less people think this is about money, and more about controlling the platform.

A real business person finds a common ground, sets terms everyone can at least pay forward. Because, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter if I have $100 lemonade, if no one is able to buy it.

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[–] Davel23@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

No, Spez is breaking Reddit. The blackout is a symptom, not a cause.

[–] 4am@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I love how WIRED, being part of the commercialized, centralized internet itself, cannot bring themselves to mention actual Reddit alternatives like Lemmy or kbin, and end this write-up of Reddit’s folly with basically “uh so people might go back to tumblr, I dunno, maybe someone should like, give someone startup money for a like new Reddit and we can live the cycle of the good ol days again”. Yeah don’t worry guys, you’ll get us next time.

What a wet fart.

[–] ImFresh3x@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago

FTA:

(Disclosure: WIRED is a publication of Conde Nast, whose parent company, Advance Publications, has an ownership stake in Reddit.)

[–] fcuks@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

conde naste was reddit and wired's parent company and I believe still a major shareholder so probably why

[–] PixxlMan@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

They mentioned "federated alternatives"

[–] KreekyBonez@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

cast yourself into the kiln, and ignite the age of fire once again

[–] Huschke@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

How are none of these news organizations reporting that is not about the API becoming a payed service, but rather about the amount of money they are charging for it... It's quite infuriating.

[–] eee@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

The rich control the narrative.

[–] odseey@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

at this point, even if reddit backpedals on their decision it will be just for damage control not because they care about the community.

[–] Seasoned_Greetings@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

If reddit backpedals, even just for damage control, it will cement just how much power the users and mods have over that site. As it should.

I think that's precisely why spez is going to do everything he can not to backpedal.

[–] 4am@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

What a wet fart.

[–] MyOpinion@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Reddit has been a terrible site since I joined it. They’re insane outages and comments just failing. Lemmy even with its bugs it much better. The future is bright.

[–] alcasa@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The faster reddit dies the better for the internet as a whole.

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[–] JoGooD@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

Reddit won't really die. It will filter out users that (I believe) are providing value to community. Reddit will keep corporate marketers, bots and fake discussion.

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