Some more good news:
With these departures, progressives are expected to propose changing church law at the next General Conference in 2024 to allow for same-sex marriage and the ordination of LGBTQ people.
this post was submitted on 07 Jul 2023
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Problem is though, if most of the progressive churches left, then the conservative majority that’s left probably won’t be down with this.
The conservatives are the ones leaving
Yay!
This is the problem with the “if you don’t like it, leave” talking points that always happen in politics. Maybe they like where they are, and want to see it thrive. If you leave, you can’t effect change. But if you stay, you’re forced to deal with hostile policies.
Yeah, there’s going to be a schism either way.
The headline makes it sound bad, but the takeaway is that 80% of United Methodists are against exclusion and sidelining of LGBTQ. I'm no fan of organized religion, but thats a surprisingly positive message those 80% remaining United Methodists are are sending.
Ehhh it's more that 20% have reached the point that their outrage is at the point that they leave. Who knows how many more are seething or unhappy.
There's a non zero percent who simply can't afford to disaffiliate. I know the state I'm in was charging them a percentage of the value of the church buildings and some other costs if they chose to disaffiliate. Turns out there's a lot of small country churches that aren't as financially well off as a lot of people seem to think.
Reminds me of the classic Emo Philips joke about Protestant schisms:
Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!"
He said, "Nobody loves me."
I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"
He said, "Yes."
I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?"
He said, "A Christian."
I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?"
He said, "Protestant."
I said, "Me, too! What franchise?"
He said, "Baptist."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?"
He said, "Northern Baptist."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"
He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?"
He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?"
He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912."
I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over."
Religion, not even once.
This is a terribly written article that's not clear on why they are leaving.
Best I can tell, they are leaving because they think United Methodists is not conservative enough. They think that too many individual churches are defying the official United Methodist ban on gay marriage, and I guess they think it's not being cracked down on enough, so the conservative churches are the ones leaving.
My parents left the Presbyterian church because of their progressive views and went to an Associate Reformed Presbyterian church. Then expected me to follow them there (I quit going long before that). Uh no thanks. Just reading their "belief statements" or whatever they are called was enough for me.
This makes sense. Civil rights did this for the baptist and southern Baptist church. There have been schisms for less
💀
Its the one you expect. If I remember correctly the Southern Baptist church didn't agree with the rest of the church body and made its own separate church.
Maybe reconsider worshipping a book saying to stone the gays to death in the first place.
It actually never says that, they just hate gay people and are looking for an excuse that defects blame from themselves.
It's kind of like how the Bible literally has a recipe for an abortion portion, but they're against it.
Christianity would be alright if any of them actually read their own book...
Leviticus 20:13-15:
13 If a man lies with another man as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood guilt shall be upon them. 14 If a man lies with a woman and also her mother, it is wickedness. Both he and they shall be burned with fire, so that there is no wickedness among you. 15 If a man lies with an animal, he shall surely be put to death, and you shall kill the animal.
There is NO GOOD RELIGION. Every religion that was ever created was intended to control the masses. The world would be so much better if we got together and had a religious purge. Think for yourself and don't let a imaginary sky god control your thoughts and lives.
edit: And before you chime in and say, "but thats the old testament!"
Jesus believed that the Old Testament was divinely inspired, the veritable Word of God. He said, ‘The Scripture cannot be broken’ (John 10:35). He referred to Scripture as ‘the commandment of God’ (Matthew 15:3) and as the ‘Word of God’ (Mark 7:13). He also indicated that it was indestructible: ‘Until Heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the law, until all is accomplished’ (Matthew 5:18).
Don't misunderstand me, i'm not defending religion, it's all stupid, but it's also been edited for political purposes.
Leviticus is mistranslated into being homophobic, it's actually against rape...
No. Your link it's wrong and people need to stop posting lies. I have seen the same misinformation link dozens of times. What does it say btw that instead of you just knowing the two languages of the Bible and verifying it yourself you instead have to expert shop?
The commandment to kill a homosexual says to kill both involved. You don't punish a victim the way you punish a criminal. But don't take my word for it you can read your Bible where it specifically says to not punish a rape victim.
The only thing funny about the translation is in the first reference to it in Leviticus (Leviticus tells you to kill gay people twice and yet your misinformation link implies it happens once) the tense on the first male is plural form. Which while odd doesn't mean the rule and associatied punishment doesn't exist.
I am sorry your idea of sky-daddy is a homophobe. Maybe stop worshipping a being that doesn't exist?
I am sorry your idea of sky-daddy is a homophobe. Maybe stop worshipping a being that doesn’t exist?
I'm just an atheist giving Christianity the benefit of the doubt.
I'd like sources though...
I’m just an atheist
Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit right now. You are an atheist right?
I’d like sources though…
For which point?
source on:
The only thing funny about the translation is in the first reference to it in Leviticus (Leviticus tells you to kill gay people twice and yet your misinformation link implies it happens once) the tense on the first male is plural form.
i provided a source for why i think it's mistranslated and i'm not an ancient languages expert so I fully accept i could be wrong, but i'd like a source on it.
No idea why you're so combative...
I mean, the original Latin version is basically the same as the English translation. And Jerome lived in Jerusalem among native Hebrew speakers when doing his translation in around 400 CE. So, I don't get the comments that it's edited for political purposes. If there's a mistranslation, it goes back to the beginning and has held steady for 1600 years.
Also, not to lose sight of practicalities, if a billion Christians have relied on the "wrong" version over the last 1600 years, doesn't that make the "wrong" version orthodox? The "right" translation at this point is heretical.
The requirement to execute homosexuals is in Leviticus.
Christianity would be alright if any of them actually read their own book…
Not really. Even if we throw out the OT, Paul, and the rest just leaving us with the 4 core gospels we are in a bad position. Jesus was cribbing off better minds and the ideals he stood for don't leave you better off. Says a lot that probably the most quoted story, the stoning of the adulteress, is a 3rd century fraud that contradicts everything else Jesus said.
Biblical Jesus was an ethno-nationalist who supported Phrassiee authority and demanded that his followers love him above all else.
I new liberal church is being formed the world Methodist church
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