Political Memes

That tracks actually, Americans don't have healthcare or equal rights

It was founded by land thieves and slave oligarchs, it was built by immigrants

To be fair, they don't think natural born citizens deserve healthcare or equal rights either.

People born here don't even get healthcare lol

Founded by settler-colonialists.

Or when humans think they're better than other humans cause of where they were born. Such a silly metric, we're all fucking born on Earth and the same species ya jackasses.

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she

With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Founded by ILLEGAL immigrants

People are really quick to pull up the ladder once they get slightly comfortable.

I remember back when I was living in Britain during Brexit that there were such ridiculous situations as the Polish lady who was pro-Leave very overtly to "stop more people coming over". Most of the people the Brexiters were complaining that "too many of them are coming over because of the EU Freedom Of Movement" were Poles.

I've seen this kind of thing often described as "pulling the ladder up after you've climbed it".

When it comes to immigration, I've seldom seen a discussion which is not self-serving in some way or other and whilst that's pretty self-explanatory for the anti-immigration crowd, even a lot of the pro-immigration crowd are either self-serving (rightwingers who want an increase and less price-sensitivity in the Offer side of the market for Workers, to push salaries down) or whose pro-immigration stand is only because they believe they themselves will not be negativelly impacted by it rather than being a genuine desire of increasing the common good.

There is very little discussion anchored on Principles such as "we have a moral obligation of treating those we invited in as Guests" or "there is a lot of suffering, both here and abroad, so given that we don't have the resources to help 8 billion people, what's the best way to reduce that suffering that doesn't just move it around or destroys the very things that make possible that prosperity we have to help with that".

Most of the thinking around this an hyper-simplistic side-taking rather than actually trying to do things like reducing pain as much as possible without actually moving the pain around or creating ghettos in the countries taking in immigrants with a new underclass defined by their country of birth or even race (go look at the Paris baudelieres for a good example of that)

For example, I think Europe should not accept immigrants who chose to cross the Med in boats trying to illegally enter Europe, because they are either the stronguest amongst those in need or driven by greed rather than need, and from the very start they think the Law should not apply to them which makes it more likely they will continue to act like that when in Europe, yet at the same time I think Europe has moral obligating of going to the many refugee camps out there and find the people more in need and help them, including bringing them over if they do so desire, since as we are unable to help everybody, the most pain-reducing way of all to help the subset of people we can help is to find and help those hurting the most - helping the strong should have far less priority than helping the weak and we have no moral obligation at all of helping the greedy.

I also think that a lot of the problems that cause the pain that then leads to immigration is because of the acts of Western elites (and not only elites, though a disproportionate fraction of the gains ends up in the hands of such elites) - it's why we should be going after those causing Global Warming (which is increasing Climate problems that turn into catastrophes in many poorer countries), people exploiting the resources in those countries, providing support to dictatorial regimes in poorer countries (not just arm sellers and countries arming or even directly intervening to prop-up "friendly" dictators but also those people who help corrupt leaders there enjoy the luxury that their stollen money buys) and so on.

IMHO, immigrantion is to a large extent a very indirect symptom of unbridled Capitalism in the West.

To be fair, the immigrants didn't like the people who are were already living here.

The real irony is that they don't think actual natives deserve healthcare either.

Well they didn't think poor and disabled people deserve healthcare either. Or enough money to survive.

The word "think" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there, don't you think? :-P

More like regurgitate what was fed in. Compliance will be rewarded, after all. Come now, don't you want to comply?

A lot of people are operating on a mostly emotional level. The words are after-the-fact justifications for what they feel. And most of what they feel is ingroups to protect, outgroups to bind.

It is the same country that was founded under the premise of freedom for all, while owning slaves.

Truly a land of equality.

No healthcare or equal rights for original natives, old immigrants/new natives or new immigrants.

What's the first nations members opinion on that?

I think the non-native US population has some unique characteristics due to having been settled by immigrants. No matter how desperate the situation was back home, you still have to be a certain kind of person to leave behind most or all of the poeople you knew, and set out across the ocean. On the positivie side, I think this makes for a resilient and adaptible population. But I think it also makes for a population that is self-centered and lacks empathy for those worse off.