TheGyattsMustBeCrazy

Never asked anybody to vote, just wanted people do not perpetuate the delusion thay Trump's incompetence may be incidentally beneficial for the things Biden fucked up.

Ah yes the greatest enemy of the Palestinian resistance, the US appellate court system, which is such an ally right now, but will surely fall to evil if Trump returns to power

We were talking about his socially conservative domestic policies that he would have more easily upheld and you are pretending we were talking about Palestine to have a leg to stand on.

Yeah remember when Trump took over the government in Jan 6, 2021 and has ruled the last 4 years and was able to avoid a conviction by a court system he has in his pockets

Him not being able to overturn an election doesn't preclude him from being able to stop overturns of his laws when elected. The point is he will attempt to pass new laws nationalizing abortion bans and lgbtq oppression, that he is put into a position to do that and trample over the weak Democrats rather than letting Dems be weak at a standstill.

Yes I remember the great US-Iran War of 2017-2021, shame the US military follows Trump and his lackeys in every aspect

But Trump didn't want to go to war then. The point is if he wanted to go to war without congressional approval he would be met with less resistance from military brass than Biden purely for being a Republican. It's not that he will be Trump but that he will be a Republican that produces the added risk.

You're just describing Republican default programming that they perform regardless of whether a Republican or a Dem is in office

Of course, but I was arguing against the claim that Trump would lose all states except Texas and Florida if convicted, a claim that I know you don't believe.

Yes Europe will follow Trump in every aspect, there will be no pushback, no blowback whatsoever, his incompetence and unpopularity will translate to him somehow strengthening the US grasp on Europe, a very reasonable take attached to reality

Why do you have to argue against things I did not say, if you had convincing arguments against what I did say? I never said there would be no blowback whatsoever, you are the one detaching from reality for claiming I did. Europe could push back during the Iraq War from a better negotiating position than they can now due to a worse current economy now. Trump's incompetence and unpopularity will be a blip against the fact that he has the reins of US military and economic might.

maybe you should recognize this is 2024 and realize what has happened the last four years

This is as stupid as "This is the most important election of our lifetime" as a saying, in that if I asked you to give specifics on how being in 2024 would make Trump any less capable increased harm than he had been during his term, you would not say anything salient.

This is just like how the libs said that Chapo Trap House was cultural appropriation by white boys. You don't give a shit about the name, you don't find it that racist, you needed to conceive of a line of attack.

I am not asking you to vote, I am asking you to stop grandstanding and doing motivated reasoning for how Trump would be better.

Yeah sure completely fuck the US ally system from Turkey to Egypt to the Gulf, lose Iraq and Syria permanently in the process and practically guarantee a new Egyptian revolution and West Bank Intifada

The problem here is that many leaders in the Middle East already see Palestine as a liability even if their population doesn't, and if Trump convinces Saudi Arabia to look the other way, which he very well might, there will be an influx of propaganda manufacturing consent throughout the Muslim world that will undercut any nascent revolutionary movements.

what could possibly be stopping Biden who is a bigger zionist than Trump in every conceivable way

Biden still fancies himself a diplomat and buys into that identity and has support based in respectability politics. Look at all the condemnations of the administration from other world leaders, they are doing that at all because they presume Biden will pretend to give a fuck and not enact direct retaliatory measures against them for insolence. The liberal Biden supporters don't have the appetite for that, and so Biden is constrained albeit minimally by the rules of decorum he is championed for buying into--forcing him to temper his destruction.

World leaders may not even bother with the condemnations against the US were Trump in office, because they would not presume he and his base would have shame and perform giving a fuck, and even possibly fear the retaliatory measures he might enact against them out of pettiness because his support comes from striking fear and dominating others. Currently you have groypers, Muslims worldwide and most Democrats all opposing Biden's Israel policy, and the uneasy coalition is responsible for the outsized spotlight on Gaza. But once Trump is in office all he would have to do is ramp up his attacks on gay rights and women's rights domestically and a significant amount of the people boosting outrage for Gaza will pivot to "I don't like Trump's Israel policy but at least he's bringing back___." The majority of Democrats already disapprove of Biden on Trump, you will never get a majority of Republicans to disapprove of Trump on any foreign military policy as long as it looks like America is spearheading it.

And sure, Biden is more of a zionist than Trump, but he isn't more of one than Kushner or the others in his cabinet responsible for the Abraham Accords. Kusher is currently working to build resorts in Gaza, if Trump helps him do that and more of the world starts vacationing there over time, Gaza will just be a footnote.

It's almost like creating unsustainable conditions for US allies in the region and beyond IS A CONCERN for US power no matter if Trump or Biden is in office

But by Trump being incompetent and not really giving a shit about the troops (see the operation in Niger, his attacks on Muslim Americans despite them being the best source of intel against terrorism), he would be less hampered by long term concerns and more willing to act rashly.

What did the liberal uproar against Trump actually accomplish?

Nothing. It only resulted in Trump doubling down and doing shit like the programs to rehome separated toddlers into evangelical families.

If Trump is elected you will get to see the liberal uproar against him that you find more heartening than the liberal apologism for Biden, but what the libs will be in uproar about by then could be far bigger civilian death tolls and far more direct military aid to Israel.

Not to mention, the damage is already done by the lib defenders of Biden, if Trump took over and did more heinous stuff to Palestine, and libs suddenly found a bleeding heart, they'd be dismissed in the national spotlight for how they were complacent when Biden was in office. And we will be able to seethe at them then for what they caused years ago, but that would be all we can do. The power of their future uproar has already been ceded today.

Jared Kushner is already in talks with people in Israel about building resorts across Gazan beaches, and he will be the guy to inform Trump's middle east policy. Lastly, we only get to keep Gaza in the spotlight now because dementia addled Biden is completely aloof and incapable of remaining in the spotlight for long, meaning he doesn't hijack the news cycle with some new bullshit the whole media turns their attention to instead the way Trump did every day.

And if Trump were president now you can bet there would be even more rapey Hitler youth frat bros attacking the encampments, than there are now when the protestors are protesting Biden. There would be way more smears of the encampment in populist non-legacy media like Newsmax/InfoWars that currently don't give a shit about them (they would not be more antisemitic than they are pro-Trump), and libs would keep condemning the protestors for hurting optics either way. There is nothing to gain from Biden in office, there is even more to lose from Trump in office.

And I am not doing contrarianism, you can look at my post history, I may be more lib than you but rest assured that that is purely organic and not insidious. I am just trying to evaluate material outcomes and trying to game out what results in minimal harm, I just don't think Biden sucking ass justifies reflexively trying to fumble for dogshit arguments about why things might incidentally work out better under Trump.

1. Trump signed more executive orders than any president in history, both before and after he had a Dem congress.
2. He already got a ton of lifetime appointments of lackey yes-man judges embedded throughout the US appellate court system during his term, on top of getting a 6-3 Supreme Court conservative majority, and they can all overturn any legal challenges to his policies. The organs of the state are mostly already indebted to him and unelected so however Republicans fare electorally he gets to pass a good amount of his policies.
3. Bush did not notify congress when he declared war, and Trump would not either if he wanted to go to war with Mexico and China.
4. Trump has the overwhelming backing of military members and police forces, something like 70-80%, who will either carry out his policies or not enforce challenges to his policies.
5. Republicans are absolutely not fucked electorally everywhere. They can always pass more laws making it harder for Democrats to vote, Red States are free to alter their individual electoral policies to favor Republicans, and Trump has a floor of at least 30% support generally represented by petit bourgeoisie tyrants--same as the Nazis did when they got to carry out everything they wanted in Germany.
6. Europe did not back the Iraq war either, and Europe is doing worse now than it was then and more beholden to US economic power.

Trump's incompetence will not help the Palestinian resistance. In fact you cannot even visualize how that scenario plays out, it's just a grass is always greener type outlook. He will likely be advised to hire somebody like John Bolton and because of his incompetence and fearlessness of bad PR he will give his delegate carte blanche. And if you think America would lose power or standing in any way that would shake its power were it caught doing even more heinous and mask off things as a result of Trump's incompetence, you must be misremembering the net zero damage to US prosperity and power in just a handful of years following the Iraq War.

C'mon dude, I disagree with the original poster but this is hysteria. Trump's incompetence will not work in favor of anyone, it didn't during all four years of his presidency, because the GOP party apparatus already has a bunch of insane mercenary freaks for him to hire to better materialize their decades long desires.

Trump would absolutely push to nationalize abortion bans and bans on curricula that educates people on LGBTQ kids, Biden is at the least not getting in the way of blue state governors who codify protections against these moves. You can say "well who cares how much faster this fascism happens under Trump when Biden isn't going to reverse the trajectory" and the fact is that still matters to millions of people, they get more years of their life to enjoy the diminishing rights they have or figure out ways to adapt or leave the country.

Democrats always build on the shitty things Republicans introduce, but every new Republican president means a bunch of new shitty things to hand off to democrats to execute. Obama continued Bush policies, but Biden continued Bush and Trump policies. An idea skyrocketing to popularity among Republicans is literally to invade Mexico to fight the cartels, I don't want to give any Dem Trump successor that initiative to prolong.

Trump incompetence will not help the Palestinian people or anyone else, I am not saying people should vote for Biden, but Trump is absolutely worse unless we use vague enough rhetoric to conflate things.

As a counterpoint everything can still get worse under Trump. He has promised to deport all anti-Israel protestors who are even legal immigrants, nationalize abortion bans, pull the same bullshit nationally that DeSantis pulled statewide in Florida by erasing curricula that creates awareness of slavery, and probably even ramp up US troop deployments to Israel. There is nothing that says things cannot get much worse and Trump won't come up with even more new bad shit for any Democrat successor to cowardly continue. You can roll off a bed of spikes right into an acid bath.

Damn, to be fair the DeSantis campaign proved that there is no appetite for reflexive culture war bullshit outside of a small base.