Couldn't find anyone who knew what they were doing, huh? Not many medical professionals out there that want to be involved in murdering people.
this post was submitted on 28 Feb 2024
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I suspect that you don't want the people willing to do this actually to do this.
Doctors will not perform lethal injection. It goes against the Hippocratic Oath:"First do no harm"
Not only that but Idaho has some draconian abortion positions so I'm sure that at this point a lot of medical professionals have left the state. But yeah you're right this does sort of go against the "do no harm" thingy doctors are always prattling on about.
Im not a fan of the death penalty, but how the fuck do you mess up injecting someone.
More than likely it's not being performed by anyone with any real medical training.
I work in healthcare, I don't know anyone in my field who would think executions are something they would be willing to apply their skills towards.
I bet some phlebotomists could be convinced.
Yeah, but they're typically only trained to take blood. You wouldn't want one trying to insert an IV on ya or anything.
Better than someone with no "real medical training."
Yeah, prob better than nothing. But, I doubt many phlebotomists would be very excited about the prospect either, especially considering they don't get paid very well to begin with. Something tells me the state isn't paying a whole bunch of bonuses to people on the execution team.
Doctors, by oath, cannot conduct lethal injections or assist in any executions. What this means is that these jobs are usually passed onto people with no medical background (because if you had a medical background, why the fuck would you be working for the justice system?). Could you find the proper vein to insert a LI line into? I couldn't.
Some prisons do employ doctors. But they're generally just treating prisoners, not helping with this kind of thing.
However it has been revealed at times that there's been at least a handful of physicians who have helped with lethal injections. To be clear, every code of ethics, medical board, and every professional physician organization roundly condemns any participation in these. Some states like Georgia have specifically made laws preventing medical boards in their state from disciplining physicians who do so if it's found out (as any medical board likely would try to do).
Often it is passed to people with no medial experience as you said, but there have been at least a handful of healthcare workers who have participated in them at times. How widespread it is isn't super clear, as anyone involved for the most part has tried to keep it secret, and the prison system has no desire to reveal this either.
And I think it's incredibly damaging to society and trust with health care workers as a whole to have these death penalty states trying to involve health care workers in this, even if only a tiny handful have actually done so. If they're really intent on continuing this barbaric practice just make it a firing squad, leave medical workers out of it. I'd personally favor just getting rid of the death penalty altogether. Not worth it for so many reasons.
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/stories/lethal-injection-and-physicians-state-law-vs-medical-ethics
There are plenty of reasons that your veins may not be suitable, and it can be as simple as dehydration.
It can really tricky to locate a vein on some people, especially if they are dehydrated (and this inmate might know this). A competent person with medical training and experience can always find a vein, but I would conjecture the prison system hires barely qualified folks for this job.
Are medical doctors actually allowed to be prison executioners?
I think it violates their code of ethics and they might lose their license. I guess the prison could hire a doctor or nurse who already lost their license for other reasons.
Whole thing is a shit show.
As someone who's been stuck several times before the person with medical training taps in the next person, who also needs several tries, it is not my experience that you can always find a vein (unless I'm just really unlucky and the hospital employs a lot of incompetent people). Sometimes a nurse can get blood out on the first try, but sometimes they're sticking both arms and moving onto my hands and I end up with two arms covered in bruises the next day. Sometimes they go get a pediatric needle and that helps. Last time, we called in the "IV Team" who used an ultrasound to place my IV. Some of us just have difficult veins.
They don't give these people any training. Sticking someone, especially if they have scarred veins or are dehydrated, is difficult. Doubly so if you have no idea what the fuck you're doing
Went to the ER one time with severe sinus pain. Nurses spent 30 minutes trying to insert an iv. They used an ultrasound machine and everything. I was so fucking miserable, my mom begged them to just stop. All I needed was some steroids and to go home. I was probably dehydrated from being there, and I'm hard to stick anyway.
Well, the type of drugs used for lethal injections can't be done like vaccines and the technique needs a level of skill to actually get the vein. They obviously chose someone who was unskilled.
Poor health and maybe even dehydration of the prisoner to be executed can make veins inaccessible. It took a considerable number of sticks to get my IV in for a colonoscopy because the preparation left me dehydrated.
how the fuck do you mess up injecting someone.
It does happen (I mean, not even talking about lethal injection). People do miss veins.
Eight times seems kind of overkill, though.
Can you imagine the strain on a person to come to terms with facing your final moments and an execution. Then the trauma of being strapped to a table facing certain death, then having to go through 8 failed attempts to kill you. Then go back to a cell and come to terms with facing the ordeal all over again. America is fucked up.
I'm not saying that it was on purpose, but either way it's a mock execution. What happened to just shooting people? That seems like a pretty solid solution.
Also cheaper too.
"Cleaner" methods like lethal injection are more pleasant for spectators, which is always the real point of executions.
A guillotine is ugly, which makes it "brutal" despite being the most humane method possible.
Pumping the cell with carbon dioxide without the prisoner knowing when it was happening. They'd go to sleep (or stay asleep) and never wake up. Painless stress free death.
But you know "gas chambers" bad
Pumping the cell with carbon dioxide
I think you mean "monoxide".
Breathing in carbon dioxide is nasty.
Shake a soda bottle when it's somewhat empty and then open it and take a breathe.
It's definitely something you'd notice, and most certainly not painless or stress free.
Euthanasia chambers use just nitrogen. The air is already 80% nitrogen, so breathing it is completely unnoticeable, you'll just become hypoxic with the lack of oxygen.
But euthanasia is quite different from killing someone. Wanting to sleep off vs being forced to die, essentially.
Capital punishment is rather archaic.
Did they gets some rando off the street to insert the IV needle? That's shit even every nurse can do.
You'd be surprised, some people's veins are what a phlebotomist would call "rolly" and move when they attempt to insert the needle. someone else can probably explain better than me.
I'm a phlebotomist and this is correct, there's also many other factors that can result in missing a vein, dehydration being the biggest factor and even just the size of the vein.
With me it even depends on the arm. I get my blood checked yearly and they always try the right arm first by default, and they're always struggling to find a suitable vein near the surface. Then I offer them to try my left arm and it's done within 10 seconds.
Essentially.
Medical ethics prevent actual medical professionals from participating in executions. So they make random prison employees do it. So it's often botched.
I got hospitalized, 2 nurses couldn't find my vein after multiple stabs. A elder doctor came by and teach them some magic trick.
It's been this way my whole life and now I have a fear of being stabbed by needles.