Can we maybe not subsidise more cars and more car infrastructure? More money for active and public transport will go much further for helping the environment among many other things.
this post was submitted on 05 Jan 2024
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Or, we start incentivising e-bikes,
I guess it has more to do with worries about the cost of electricity.
Or the cost of cars in the midst of a cost of living crisis. E-bikes are cheap by comparison and only about £14/year for electricity.
I would an entire e-bike if I had a commute. Rare WFH L. 😑
That doesn't make any sense. Electricity is always cheaper than gas.
No, it isn’t, not in the UK. My EV does run cheaper than an equivalent petrol car when charging at home, but when charging on motorways, which I have to do on longer runs, it’s actually more expensive to run than petrol.
Ah. So not electricity per se, but public charger fees.
Considering the number of people who don't have a driveway, public charging points are really the only option.
I'm not sure what I'll do when they force me to buy electric and move of ICE. There are four charging points at the big Tesco's, none at Sainsbury's or Waitrose and none of the petrol stations have charge points. It's just not viable for me.
Dumb question from an American: why doesn't the national grid install roadside chargers? They could put them everywhere and then have a card or NFC fob to link the charges back to your account with your provider of choice. That way people without a driveway could charge at the same electric rate they pay at home.
Nothing.
Except we keep voting for people who are giving away new oil fields rather than planning for our future.
This fully explains the non-stop adverts I've been getting for a certain large petrol company now installing EV chargers.
They want to get in on charging while the margin is still 200% of electricity cost, and make that normal.
No it isn't. Maybe in the UK...
The cost of public EV charging is putting people off EV's. 79p/Kwh is more expensive than petrol/diesel. Home charging is cheaper at a tenth of the price but when you are few hundred miles from home it's makes no economic sense.
Typical EV, 3.5 miles per kWh Rapid cost = 79p/kWh 79p/3.5 = 23p per mile
Typical petrol, 36 miles per gallon liters 4.5461 per gallon 36 / 4.5461 = 7.92 miles per liter 149.8p per litre 149.8p / 7.92 = 19p per mile
So yes, more expensive. BUT charging at a public charger is rare for me. About once a month.
I get 7p/kWh over night when I charge at home. I get about 3miles per kWh, so about 2.33p per mile. I commute about a thousand miles a month, charging at home. For about £23.33p
Public chargers are a rip off, but it's in the noise compared to the commute cost saving.
I mean you're not wrong but at the same time it's foolish to write off the cost of public charging as a non-issue. People who are used to having to drive somewhere to fill up with fossil fuels are already wary of charging times and charger availability, so the fact that it currently costs more than petrol is another reason for them to just buy another new combustion car while they're still available.
We went electric a smidge under 5 years ago and in that time the cost of a rapid charge has more than doubled. If that had happened to petrol or diesel there would've been riots in the streets!
It's a ridiculous state of affairs but nothing's likely to change while the government is beholden to the oil industry. This is exactly what they want.
How am I wrong? The maths should speak for itself. It sounds like you are more agreeing to be honest.
If you driving an ICE, being able to cheaply refuel a home is so game charging you can't really get it until you have being driving an EV for a month or two. Get a EV with range enough for x1.5-x2 your commute, and your good.
Rapid chargers should be cheaper and there should be more of them. But we also need more cheap slow chargers in carparks you going to park for hours anyway.
Though really, I'd rather better public transport than drive, but where I am, that's a way off.
I didn't say you're wrong, I said you're not wrong. My point was that it's easy for us who are already used to home charging to preach about how cheap and easy it is, but it flies over the heads of the average joe who seem to only think about it in terms of the public infrastructure - like petrol stations.
Hence, ignoring or downplaying the price of public charging because, in reality, it's a rare occurrence to actually need them does nothing to convince non-EV drivers to switch.
That was what I was getting at, but ultimately we're in agreement. If you're able to charge at home it's super cheap and super convenient, but the cost of public charging needs to come down drastically if we're going to convince ICE drivers to make the switch.
Argh, sorry. Some how missed the not.
I think we are saying same. Maybe EV ads should talk home charging. Frankly, right now, it's a bit questionable if you go EV without it. Though I met one guy charging at a public charger, who lives in flats and has very high milage. What he does is use a local Tesla charger bank over night at a low rate. But that doesn't scale of course.
Likewise I charge at home on Octopus Go with most journeys within return distance of home. We do about 17k miles per year so we save about £2k a year over diesel. Yes public chargers are a rip off and do not see the prices coming down for EV or domestic any time soon if at all.
I think it will take either proper competition or regulation to stop public chargers being a rip off. Domestic can be cheaper now. There is dynamic pricing, where you can get negitive cost power. Solar and big house battery of course.
Frankly I think they are still too expensive for most people up front. It's a lot cheaper to run if you can charge at home, but if you can't afford the extra £5k-£10k vs an equivalent petrol car then you're not going to buy it. New EVs in particular are overpriced IMO, whereas the used market is actually pretty good value right now. There's just no point in spending £37k-42k on a new Kia Niro EV when you can get a 3 year old model for £15k-20k that's just as good.
New cars are too expensive for the vast majority of people. Policies like this are intended to get more (new) EVs on the road now so that in 5, 10, 15 years' time there are affordable EVs available for those who buy secondhand.
It's not a good policy. A hefty subsidy to the upper middle class which assumes private vehicles are part of a sustainable future (they're not). Better to increase VAT on non-EVs, tax non-EV company cars at a punitive rate, buy only EVs for public services.
And put a shitload of money into public transport which is free at the point of use. Focus driverless tech on 'last mile' trips (getting people to and from public transport hubs). Plus community pool EVs for those trips which are impossible by public transport no matter how good it is.
Any 'green' policy focused on getting more of any kind of car on the road will fail to achieve its 'green' aim. They're just finding ways to shovel more money at the relatively well off and pretend it's good.
Wish we would just tax cars more and use that to put designated cycle lanes in or any form of public transport on its own lane.
There's barely the capacity for a lot of UK roads. The only option would be to ban on street parking, but that's the only option millions of people have.
Cars don't need to be on all roads. Just close them to cars. Or have two roads and have one lane in each direction for cars.
But I'm more for the radical idea of redeveloping large parts of downtown or near downtown anyway. Level it and rebuild it with higher density and more public transport, cycling, walking and parks
This is the best summary I could come up with:
The number of new cars registered in the UK has jumped by nearly 18% but electric vehicle demand is flatlining, prompting the industry to call for a VAT cut to stimulate sales.
The increase is a boost for the automotive industry after the pandemic led to supply chain problems and a shortage of vital computer chips that slowed production.
After the latest figures showing the sector is still well short of that target and that the switchover is stalling, the SMMT is calling for the government to halve VAT on all new ZEV purchases across the next three years.
It has estimated the plan, which equates to an average of £4,000 per purchase, would save consumers a total of £7.7bn over the period and would put 250,000 extra ZEVs on the road by 2026.
Mike Hawes, the SMMT chief executive, said: “Government has challenged the UK automotive sector with the world’s boldest transition timeline and is investing to ensure we are a major maker of electric vehicles.
Superminis – small hatchbacks such as the Ford Fiesta and Vauxhall Corsa – continued to be the country’s most popular category of car, making up nearly 30% of all new vehicles.
The original article contains 632 words, the summary contains 198 words. Saved 69%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Going full EV will never happen with today's tech. They just don't meet the need of too many drivers outside the middle class. Unless you don't need to take longer trips often and you can change at home, EVs suck.
PHEVs with 80 miles of range will be the sweet spot IMO.
In the UK the range of an EV will get you quite a significant distance. Some EVs advertise a range over 400 miles. Even half that is more than most brits travel in a day. I agree that the charging is a problem, especially if you rent or live in a house with no driveway
If it's not useful for car trips, the average lower income family isn't going to rent a car or fly. Nobody drops 30k so they can rent a car every time they want to leave the island.
Cornwall to Aberdeen is 700 miles, you'd only have to stop to charge 4 times even with a 200 mile range. You're probably stopping more than that to take a piss. And I can't imagine too many people are making that journey.
Taking a piss and grabbing snacks for an entire family is 5-10 minutes and gas. Not 30 for a full recharge. Or an hour if the supercharger isn't available because it's a busy holiday/travel weekend.