this post was submitted on 22 Dec 2023
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[–] groovyLizard42@lemmy.eco.br 106 points 11 months ago (2 children)

For me the most impactful sentence here is the acknowledgement that the war on drugs failed. This is obvious to a lot of us, but to politicians to say this, could mean they are actually not tangled up with the drug lords. Cheers for Switzerland, hope the legal marijuana trials triumph with positive outcomes.

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[–] PrettyFlyForAFatGuy@lemmy.ml 82 points 11 months ago (5 children)

The "War on drugs" has been a colossal failure.

Legalize, regulate and tax.

At least then you can take the money out of the cartels and despotic regimes. You can then use the tax money raised to offset the harm these drugs absolutely do through social policies and rehabilitation programs that actually work

[–] nicetriangle@kbin.social 45 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Also helps ensure the drugs are clean. The US marijuana legalization process has absolutely not been perfect but the regime of testing for pesticides and mold is very effective.

If cocaine were legal and regulated you wouldn't be hearing all these stories of people dying of fentanyl overdoses from doing shitty cut coke.

[–] DharmaCurious@startrek.website 6 points 11 months ago (4 children)

It does make me wonder where they swiss government will acquire their coke. With weed, it's fairly easy to grow it wherever you need to, but with coke, you pretty much have to be in certain regions, yeah?

If that's the case, is this still going to be supporting those same cartels? If more countries legalized, we could maybe hope to see legally grown, harvested, and processed coke without all the slave labor and shit. Could be a real boon for South American countries, too, if the cartels lost power, and the cocoa plantations could be nationalized.

I just woke up, so I may be just talking out my ass, though

[–] Tja@programming.dev 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] DharmaCurious@startrek.website 2 points 11 months ago

Good catch. I genuinely don't know if that was me or autocorrect 😄

[–] theneverfox@pawb.social 4 points 11 months ago (4 children)

If you go to Peru, you can buy coca leaf tea, grown by legitimate companies, sold entirely legally. It's amazing for adjusting to high altitudes, if you ever go to the Andes, I highly recommend you drink the tea.

There's huge illegal growing operations, but there's legal ones. It's not that hard to grow - I think it likes high altitudes and moisture, but although it's not as easy to grow as "weed", I'm pretty sure it's easier than coffee

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[–] nicetriangle@kbin.social 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I'm honestly totally ignorant to whether they can be grown indoors at scale outside of their normal growing region, but that's a good point to bring up.

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[–] Unaware7013@kbin.social 15 points 11 months ago

The “War on drugs” has been a colossal failure.

That's only true if you believe the lies that the "war on drugs" was actually about drugs. It never has been, it was always about having an excuse to incarcerate and beat down groups they didn't like; minorities, the poor, and the left.

When you look at it that way, it's obvious that the war on drugs is actually a really successful means to an end. Just try not to have a heart and think of the countless lives they ruined to keep a boot on peoples' neck.

[–] dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 11 months ago

For waging a war on drugs, the US government certainly imported a lot of cocaine into the US.

[–] chitak166@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The war on drugs has been a massive success.

It keeps people poor, desperate, and ashamed to engage in behavior rich people engage in.

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[–] Chickenstalker@lemmy.world 49 points 11 months ago (8 children)

People. Cocaine is not maryjanes. You can get addicted badly to cocaine. There's tons of neurological effects that will cause you to not function proplerly in society. By all means smoke your ganja but don't equate hard drugs with it.

[–] abbotsbury@lemmy.world 10 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Lots of highly addicting stuff is legal, I don't care if people do cocaine. Make it legal and safely accessible so drug addicts can participate in society and not have to fund cartels

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[–] htrayl@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

The question is whether or not a legal-in-some-circumstances is more effective at reducing social damage than keeping it illegal.

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[–] ImFresh3x@sh.itjust.works 36 points 11 months ago (11 children)

The best way to reduce harm with this drug to users and the planet is to get rid of the deadly impurities and high cost.

[–] assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Removing impurities is really tricky, but that said, it's not like industry grade equipment and operations are being used here to manufacture it. There may be a simple step or two that would help significantly reduce impurities.

Your comment also made me realize for the first time, a lot of these illicit drugs are made by hobbyists, so to speak, not professional manufacturers. Just knowledge isn't enough, and I say that as a chemical engineer. If I tried to synthesize anything at home it would have a high degree of impurity -- even if I bought some nice lab equipment.

There's probably a lot of benefit in having the government subsidize a pharma company to make high purity drugs. The impurities could be responsible for a lot of side effects.

[–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

I bet many go out of their way to avoid getting proper equipment because those purchases can get them on a list. It's legally safer to produce sketchy shit, and since you're breaking the law anyways, who cares if what you're selling is really what you say it is.

Profit comes from volume, you can take the risk of selling to as many people as possible or you can inflate your volume with other cheaper shit and never even consider the bit of powder that remained in a lethal dose-sized clump as you mixed it.

[–] Nugelz@programming.dev 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Yeah and lazy dealers, Jesus.

[–] Eximius@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago

Maybe you wanted this word: sleezy

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[–] moitoi@lemmy.dbzer0.com 36 points 11 months ago (2 children)

People should note that cocaine is the widest illegal drug used in Switzerland. Cannabis is second.

[–] Bartsbigbugbag@lemmy.ml 15 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (6 children)

Man, I just don’t get how that many people would like coke. It’s a shitty high, that doesn’t last nearly long enough, that has massive implications for your long term health, and it costs way too much for what you get. $50 of weed = enough for a week+. $50 of coke = maybe 30m if you’re not sharing. I’m glad I never really got it, it’s too much of a rich persons drug for me to have ever been able to service an addiction to it.

[–] Thief_of_Crows@sh.itjust.works 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Aside from the price, in my opinion it's far superior to weed. It's a shorter high, but much better IMO. The price is the main reason I don't use it.

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[–] stoicferret@lemmy.world 31 points 11 months ago

Swiss cocaine so cheap and widely used they’re considering legalising it

As prices halve on ‘highest quality we’ve ever seen’, Bern says ‘war on drugs has failed’ and looks at it being sold for recreational use James Crisp, Europe Editor 21 December 2023 • 2:53pm Switzerland has one of the highest levels of cocaine use in Europe

Switzerland’s capital is considering legalising cocaine after admitting the “war on drugs has failed”.

Bern is weighing up a pilot scheme to allow the sale of the class A narcotic for recreational use – a radical approach which is thought to be a worldwide first.

Switzerland has one of the highest levels of cocaine use in Europe, according to the levels of illicit drugs and their metabolites measured in waste water, with Zurich, Basel and Geneva all featuring in the top 10 cities in Europe.

Prices of the drug have halved in the country in the last five years, according to Addiction Switzerland, and usage is rising. Some politicians and experts have criticised complete bans as an ineffective means of addressing the crisis.

“We have a lot of cocaine in Switzerland right now, at the cheapest prices and the highest quality we have ever seen,” said Frank Zobel, deputy director at Addiction Switzerland.

“You can get a dose of cocaine for about 10 francs these days, not much more than the price for a beer.”

Cocaine prices have fallen because the market is flooded with large amounts of the drug.

In 2022, more than 160 tons of cocaine were confiscated in Antwerp and Rotterdam alone, and much more got into Europe undetected.

While prices have dropped, purity has increased. In Switzerland, 70 to 80 per cent of the substances sold are now pure cocaine. ‘Legalisation can do better than repression’

Many European countries, including Spain, Italy and Portugal, no longer impose prison sentences for possession of cocaine, which is highly addictive, but nowhere has gone so far as to legalise it.

The plan will require existing national law banning recreational use of the drug to be changed, but Bern’s parliament supports the scheme, which would follow trials now under way to permit the legal sale of cannabis.

“The war on drugs has failed, and we have to look at new ideas,” said Eva Chen, a member of the Bern council from the Alternative Left Party, which co-sponsored the proposal. “Control and legalisation can do better than mere repression.”

She said it was too early to say how the scientifically supervised pilot scheme would develop, including where the drug would be sold or how it would be sourced.

The sale of cocaine could be based on the model for selling cannabis but with stricter rules.

Any legislation would be accompanied by quality controls and information campaigns, Ms Chen added, with the aim being to curtail a currently lucrative criminal market.

Bern’s education, social affairs and sports directorate is preparing a report on the possible cocaine trial, although this does not mean it will definitely take place.

There will be many political hurdles for the proposal to clear before it can be implemented. Concern about potential dangers

Bern’s parliament leans towards the Left but the government of the canton of Bern, one of 26 member states of the Swiss confederation, tacks to the Right and may yet be able to block the required change in national law.

Still, the decision to go ahead could come in a matter of years, or earlier if the current cannabis schemes - where the drug is on sale at pharmacies - show successful results.

But opponents of the plan have voiced concern about the potential dangers.

“Cocaine is one of the most strongly addictive substances known,” said Boris Quednow, group leader of the University of Zurich’s Centre for Psychiatric Research.

He said its risks were in a completely different league to alcohol or cannabis, citing links to heart damage, strokes, depression and anxiety.

“Cocaine can be life-threatening for both first-time and long-term users. The consequences of an overdose, but also individual intolerance to even the smallest amounts, can lead to death,” the Bern government said

[–] DudeImMacGyver@sh.itjust.works 28 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

"Hey, remember that time the Swiss legalized blow before they legalized cannabis?"

[–] originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com 27 points 11 months ago (1 children)

so they are good on snow this year

[–] Unaware7013@kbin.social 10 points 11 months ago

At least someone is going to have a white Christmas

[–] Grimy@lemmy.world 16 points 11 months ago (6 children)

I've had friends that were cocaine addicts and some that really hit the bottom. This seems insane to me, this isn't a fun and easy drug like weed imo. I've always lumped coke with meth and heroin.

[–] TheBlackLounge@lemmy.world 18 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Its harm potential is somewhere in between. To put it in perspective, alcohol is worse than heroin. And like alcohol addicts, your friends should be able to get a clean and safe source to reduce damage, and the help they need without any fear of persecution.

You can't criminalize problems away. It evidently didn't help your friends.

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[–] ngdev@lemmy.world 12 points 11 months ago (1 children)

My friend's brother just died of heroin overdose a few weeks ago and I just couldn't help but feel for him. How many dark alleys did he have to go to to get his high? How many sketchy people were involved? Did he have access to clean needles? He overdosed alone, and likely felt subhuman due to being relegated to the fringes of society just to get his high.

Legalization would not have kept him from getting high, but it certainly would have enabled him access to clean drugs from a safe place, clean needles, and possibly made him viewed as someone who enjoyed getting high and not a piece of shit addict. He had a problem and it being illegal only made it worse for him.

Legalize it all. He was an adult, it's his body. He can do what he wants with it, it's nobody's place to tell anyone what you can or cannot consume. He loved getting high on heroin and I don't see a problem with that.

[–] sukhmel@programming.dev 5 points 11 months ago

He was an adult, it's his body

This seems to be widely questioned view as of lately 😞

[–] themelm@sh.itjust.works 7 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Yeah there is no safe amount of cocaine to do. There is also no safe amount of alcohol to do. At least if shit is legalised people can decide to use cocaine or not with informed consent and can be sure they are actually getting pure cocaine.

I had a friends cousin die from using cocaine but it was because they had bought it off a street dealer and it was tainted with fentanyl. They just wanted to have a little extra fun on a night out on vacation. They'd be alive and well if cocaine was legal.

Prohibition doesn't work. It just adds suffering and stigma to addiction. One of the biggest factors to addiction is isolation something that criminalizing health issues greatly contributes to.

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[–] sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml 7 points 11 months ago

Yes but they aren't legalizing it because it's fun and safe they are legalizing it because jailing people over drugs does not help them and there is no point in filling your jails with such a high percentage of your population.

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[–] curiousaur@reddthat.com 14 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Real cocaine is not nearly as harmful as the amphetamines and opiates. I wish I could still get pure coke and molly.

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[–] toofpic@lemmy.world 12 points 11 months ago

Swiss guys, sitting on piles of cash and cocaine: "man, I don't get it: everyone has cocaine, lambos and other stuff, what the fuss is about? Let's just legalize all the shit, everyone has it anyway!"

[–] ivanafterall@kbin.social 8 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Wait, should I be doing cocaine!?

[–] LUHG_HANI@lemmy.world 11 points 11 months ago (1 children)

For me If it's not high quality it's the most depressing drug the day after. It's not worth the 30 minute high.

[–] theKalash@feddit.ch 7 points 11 months ago (2 children)

“We have a lot of cocaine in Switzerland right now, at the cheapest prices and the highest quality we have ever seen,”

So that's a yes?

[–] ivanafterall@kbin.social 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Seriously, it's the first time I'm hearing cocaine advertised like a New Year Overstock Blowout at your local Ford dealership.

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[–] UnrepententProcrastinator@lemmy.ca 7 points 11 months ago

I'm for legalizing all drugs but some drugs like cocaine should come with meeting with a therapist to see if you are doing the right thing for what ails you.

[–] qooqie@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago (3 children)

I got paywalled, anyone have a bypass link?

[–] stoicferret@lemmy.world 14 points 11 months ago

Copied the article in another comment. Just for You, have a nice day.

[–] crandlecan@mander.xyz 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Bot posted summary just now

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[–] TheBat@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

Swiss Sugar by Toblerone when?

[–] Shellbeach@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago

Get some dispensaries for weed while you're at it pretty please

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