this post was submitted on 06 Oct 2023
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47
Senior call button (lemmy.blahaj.zone)
submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by CoachDom@lemmy.blahaj.zone to c/opensource@lemmy.ml
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Hi y'all,

I have an elderly lady living next door and she doesn't really seem to have anyone checking on her (I have never seen anyone coming to hers) apart from me and my partner every once in a while (usually she will pop by asking if we need anything and vice versa).

I'm a little bit paranoid about what would happen if she fell/collapsed in her apartment and couldn't call for help. It doesn't help that there is a dog living with her (I'm not gonna paint the picture, but I'm sure you heard the stories...).

I want to suggest to her to have some sort of SOS button that she could carry around the flat and, if something happens, she could press it to call for help.

I found this on aliexpress but it has it's own proprietary android app that I don't think would work on my GrapheneOS phone. Local, non-aliexpress options are pretty expensive and/or are subscription based.

Do you know of any alternative that wouldn't break a bank and would have more open source friendly system in place?

EDIT: I was thinking about a cheap wireless door bell (she would have the button - door bell would be in our flat). The problem is when we are away from home.

Perhaps a door bell with simple phone push notifications (my partner has a regular android phone so she could receive those)? Any product suggestions?

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[–] sxan@midwest.social 44 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I know this doesn't meet the parameters of FOSS, but in this instance I'd discard privacy concerns and just get her an Echo or Google Home. They're cheap, and bring able to call out a help request is better than a button she can forget to carry or wear. Either is capable of hearing a command in a 2br apartment, and have SOS ability.

I have a failing MIL in a similar situation. She's living alone, isolated, not near any family, and won't move. I gave her a Google Home I had in a box from a few years ago, and it is a godsend. She talks to it, it talks back, and she can make it do things she's not capable anymore of doing with technology. But most importantly, she can call any of us by telling the Home to do so.

I wouldn't risk a cobbled-together solution, personally, and right now the OSS technology stack for voice recognition is (a) not inexpensive, and (b) futzy. I have no doubt it'll get there; there are already some promising devices, but that integration with calling and SOS is the key.

Edit: typos

[–] hperrin@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago

Seconded. Privacy concerns are sometimes trumped by safety concerns.

[–] thirdBreakfast@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

My Dad gets confused trying to make a call on his phone, but he can say "Alexa, call Third Breakfast".

We have an emergency button to go around his neck, with an monthly phone plan, which seems to permanently live on the kitchen bench...

[–] bionicjoey@lemmy.ca 40 points 1 year ago (3 children)

It doesn't help that there is a dog living with her (I'm not gonna paint the picture, but I'm sure you heard the stories...).

FWIW I think you're thinking of cats. A loyal dog will often starve to death before harming their master.

All that being said, I think this is one of those hills where it's not worth dying on for FOSS. There are services out there that are designed to do this and have round-the-clock monitoring. Do you really want to trust that your jury-rig solution is fool proof enough to save her? As you said, if you are out of the house, it does no good. Just something like lifealert is probably better here.

[–] thelastknowngod@lemm.ee 24 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Agreed. I could run water sensors and solenoid valves for my basement water heater off of an arduino or rpi. I could also use a commercial product that has a warranty and a product engineering team and a QA department and etc etc...

I'm going commercial. The potential for damage to be done is too high for some hack job.

I've been in FOSS software for more than 20 years but honestly find the absolutism insufferable. It's not always practical and there are more important hills to die on.

[–] bionicjoey@lemmy.ca 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's worth consideration in cases where the industry has been monopolized by some kind of "smart tech" product. Like if for your example the only company selling water heaters was Meta, and you needed to sign your soul away and had no right to repair your water heater, then jury rigging as you describe might make sense. But as long as there is a product available which provides a minimally invasive option, it isn't worth trying to roll your own.

[–] Maeve@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago

I wonder if Mozilla tested them. The report on cars was 🤦🏽‍♀️ and they don’t even tell you, unless I misunderstood. I thought it was some sort of implied consent to…sell your most intimate details, down to ssn, sexual preferences/proclivities and obviously if it listens for commands, it’s listening, searching dba for something similar to what it heard.

[–] plzExplainNdetail@slrpnk.net 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Dogs can and do eat people. https://www.nationalgeographic.co.uk/animals/would-your-dog-eat-you-if-you-died-get-the-facts

I do agree that OP should look into already existing services that are actively monitored.

[–] Maeve@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago

Well that devolved fast, hah. But i thought it too. You’re dead, they’re starving 🍽 . But depending on overall mobility, rom, vision, a fog/cat can trap you up. I was amazed the lady that broke her hip up the street didn’t get pneumonia, but…she got up and did her pt 2-3 times a day instead of laying up or unable to get up and getting pneumonia. I get it. I’m feeling my age and old/new injuries and aches and I feel like i don’t want to walk, too hut/cold/rainy/mosquitoes but I feel it if i miss a few days.

[–] JJROKCZ@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

Foss has its uses, this isn’t one of them. Get her a life alert or other fully supported solution as this is something her life could depend on and it’s not worth the risk

[–] Papanca@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Just commenting to say how nice it is of you to be that caring about your neighbor.

[–] CoachDom@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Thank you :)

We are not even that close, we have a casual chat once in a blue moon and she is very nice. I just want to make sure she can get help when she needs it.

[–] Maeve@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago

Is she fairly ambulatory? One of the best things you can do if you’ve time and inclination for physical and mental health are having regular chats and walks together. Five minutes regularly is better than 30 minutes a week. Rhetorical, just putting that in the ethers. Agree it’s so very kind of you to care.

[–] rufus@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

You want something that she's comfortable with. A necklace or a bracelet/watch with a big red button that's also specifically made so you don't have too many false alerts. Because that happens all the times. People do chores and push the button inadvertently and older people don't want to bother people, so then they're ashamed of having too many false alerts and won't have it with them 24/7 out of false shame. So use something that's made for the purpose and not a doorbell.

Also it has to be obvious how to use it. Even when in distress at 5am after you've fell down and can barely remember what you're supposed to do. A necklace with one big red button will probably do it. Or something similar she can wear around your wrist.

There are also emergency phones with a red button on the back. (And watches with fall detection.) But you need to have a subscription for the phone to dial out. And it needs to be charged regularly. A RF button won't have those downsides.

I don't know which product to buy. But seems there are several ones out there < $50

Search keywords would be something like: elderly, emergency button, necklace, pendant, alert system, call button.

https://www.pflegerufset.de/ELDAT-RS16-Hausnotruf-mit-Armbandsender-mit-Quittierungssender/PRS10125

https://www.rollstuhl-senioren.de/hausnotruf-fuer-senioren/

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Emergency-Seniors-Bracelet-Monitor-Elderly/dp/B0B6VRN8JF/

https://www.amazon.de/Handsender-Hausnotruf/s?k=Handsender+Hausnotruf

https://www.tuerklingel-shop.de/Mobiler-Alarm-Notruf-Knopf-Funk-Senioren-Hausnotruf-Pflege-Ueberfall-2-Sender-Pflegedienst

Aliexpress also has some "Tuya Wifi Smart Sos button". But I'd probably go for something simple. A button that sends a RF signal and a receiver at your place that's making the audible alert. WiFi, bluetooth, Apps etc make it more complicated and more likely to fail.

[–] Maeve@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

More elderly female neighbor has a wrist button. We live in the paths of hurricanes soooo…if power/wifi goes down do they somehow transmit when wifi/cellular won’t? I can imagine battery backup, but I’m lost after that.

[–] rufus@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Ask her. In my experience elderly people like to talk, have enough wisdom accumulated to share with younger people. And have few social contacts anyways so they usually like to talk to the neighbors.

Where I live the proper units have battery backup and are connected to a landline. And landlines sometimes(?) still work without the power grid. Also a certain percentage of cell towers are supposed to have battery backup for emergency purposes. They might stop connecting you to your random people, but still do emergency numbers.

But I don't know how things work in the US. The telephone network in Germany seems to be a bit different than the one in the USA. And we don't have hurricanes around here. We might also have less power outages in general.

And I'd need to ask if this is still the case today. My info is from 10 years ago. Old phone lines are getting replaced everywhere. I somehow doubt the new fibre connections work without power.

[–] Maeve@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I really dk and the 80+ female has dementia and gets confused so asking her is unreliable. She has good and not so great moments, with memory.

[–] rufus@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ah. Yeah, dementia isn't a nice thing. Glad she's able to still live at home. I think it's a good thing we have technology like those wristbands that can assist with that.

[–] Maeve@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

Well, it’s not good. She’s never married or had kids, and I’ve never seen nor heard of nieces/nephews, never seen anyone’s faces over there but me and the guy.

[–] CoachDom@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Thanks for you answers so far.

My point is, she is still mentally there (I think) so if she wants one of those subscription buttons, she can 100% get it herself.

I was just thinking, as an extra layer of security, if I'm in the area to help out.

[–] wmassingham@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

So you don't even know if she'd want this?

Just give her your phone number.

[–] Maeve@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

Sure. Did you broach the subject with her or ?

[–] Kit@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 1 year ago

As others have said, just buy a ready made solution. There's several options without a monthly fee and no smartphone app. Hell even at RadioShack 20 years ago there was an option that tied into your home phone system.

Try googling "emergency dialer" to find good examples.

[–] Shepy 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I have a number of these buttons about the house

SNZB-01 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/304860775879?mkcid=16&amp;mkevt=1&amp;mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&amp;ssspo=fzhcellmt0u&amp;sssrc=2047675&amp;ssuid=hddZAAubQsK&amp;var=603868193820&amp;widget_ver=artemis&amp;media=COPY

I have a RasPi running https://www.zigbee2mqtt.io/

I have one of these flashed as hub / bridge https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203668277433?var=504097716478

Then just some python connecting to the mqtt and responding which I'd be happy to provide a copy of if you decide to go down that route, just let me know. Could have it sending a pushover notification or something along those lines quite easily

[–] CoachDom@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 year ago

That is really cool, but too techy for me. I need something plug and play.

But thank you so much for this suggestion and code offer!

[–] Maeve@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Hi that’s very interesting to me as I just had a scare with a neighbor about a half mile away. We’re rural and he has a government-provided phone and his brother has wifi, but the company has blacked out wifi calling and he must be outside to get wifi anyway. I don’t have a car and am not super technical, but I do have friends who can help if I need it, just trying to figure out if a cantenna would be workable. He also has a cheap tablet that’s wifi capable so any suggestions would be appreciated. Tyia

[–] Shepy 2 points 1 year ago

I wouldnt trust a cantenna or anything like that for wellbing of someone, there's just too many variables even down to atmospheric pressure which is going to affect wifi signal with something like that. That said, if you can put a rasberry pi at his house, maybe in the house but on the nearest wall to the access point / router, then something like this might be workable

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 points 1 year ago

Look, what about an Amazon Echo? I know it's not open source at all but depending on the house size a couple Echo Dots could cover a lot. I think they can make phone calls because I've called my phone to find it before with mine but I'm not sure.

A benefit is that she won't have to have it on her person.

Something like a Ring Doorbell could work too. Just thinking out loud. This is a weirder suggestion. They have a battery and nothing says they have to be installed on a wall. Just turn off motion completely. At that point she can press the button and talk to you.

[–] nottelling@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Here you go. Will do specifically what you want, including Web hooks and MQTT out of the box. The Shelly cloud is fine, but these are flashable with tasmota or esphome or roll your own firmware.

https://usa.shelly.cloud/knowledge-base/shelly-button-one/