An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of the "ML" influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.
Serious posts, news, and discussion go in c/Socialism.
If you are new to socialism, you can ask questions and find resources over on c/Socialism101.
Please don't forget to help keep this community clean by reporting rule violations, updooting good contributions and downdooting those of low-quality!
0. Only post socialist memes
That refers to funny image macros and means that generally videos and screenshots are not allowed. Exceptions include explicitly humorous and short videos, as well as (social media) screenshots depicting a funny situation, joke, or joke picture relating to socialist movements, theory, societal issues, or political opponents. Examples would be the classic case of humorous Tumblr or Twitter posts/threads. (and no, agitprop text does not count as a meme)
1. Socialist Unity in the form of mutual respect and good faith interactions is enforced here
Try to keep an open mind, other schools of thought may offer points of view and analyses you haven't considered yet. Also: This is not a place for the Idealism vs. Materialism or rather Anarchism vs. Marxism debate(s), for that please visit c/AnarchismVsMarxism.
2. Anti-Imperialism means recognizing capitalist states like Russia and China as such
That means condemning (their) imperialism, even if it is of the "anti-USA" flavor.
3. No liberalism, (right-wing) revisionism or reactionaries.
That includes so called: Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism, Dengism, Market Socialism, Patriotic Socialism, National Bolshevism, Anarcho-Capitalism etc. . Anti-Socialist people and content have no place here, as well as the variety of "Marxist"-"Leninists" seen on lemmygrad and more specifically GenZedong (actual ML's are welcome as long as they agree to the rules and don't just copy paste/larp about stuff from a hundred years ago).
4. No Bigotry.
The only dangerous minority is the rich.
5. Don't demonize previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
We must constructively learn from their mistakes, while acknowledging their achievements and recognizing when they have strayed away from socialist principles.
(if you are reading the rules to apply for modding this community, mention "Mantic Minotaur" when answering question 2)
6. Don't idolize/glorify previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
Notable achievements in all spheres of society were made by various socialist/people's/democratic republics around the world. Mistakes, however, were made as well: bureaucratic castes of parasitic elites - as well as reactionary cults of personality - were established, many things were mismanaged and prejudice and bigotry sometimes replaced internationalism and progressiveness.
Do lefties fight everyone including lefties now? I think even lefties rejoice on the ICC arrest warrant, kinda weird calling that "trust ICC blindly".
And no lol i don't think liberal trust israel blindly, you're mistaken zionist with liberal, even though some of them overlap. It's like calling all lefties tankie. But if that's your intention then sure i guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Have you ... read the text of the meme ? Agreeing with the ICC does not mean trusting it blindly and nowhere in the meme does it say that.
But liberals do trust institutions blindly ("the cops said so, must be true"). It is a critique of dogmatic worldviews like liberalism and the inconsistencies those inherently have. Yep, not every liberal is a zionist, but most are. Especially where I am from (not US). But this specific meme is not a critique of all zionists, only liberal zionists, which is why it is labelled as it is, because for example conservative zionists don't have this specific inconsistency: They are distrustful of institutions (for mostly stupid reasons) and can therefore easily dismiss the ICC arrest warrant without giving it much thought. Still wrong, but in this specific case internally consistent wrong. But liberals have no way of reconsiling their inconsistent simultaneously held beliefs which is why I have seen many of them lashing out on social media, which was the motivation for the meme.
Have you ... read the text of the meme ?
But this specific meme is not a critique of all zionists, only liberal zionists
not every liberal is a zionist, but most are. Especially where I am from (not US).
-trying to talk shit against liberal zionist of their own country
-tag the wrong group and made no mention of zionist
-blame the reader for misunderstood
Ok sure fine you win i give up.
Those citations are misleadingly assembled. I blamed you in the first part of my comment for somehow interpreting yourself as a target of the meme, even though if you are on this community you probably aren't a Liberal. I was annoyed by that, because that part is VERY clear in the meme. Trusting only the ICC blindly is not even an option on the buttons only the general trusting all institutions. The latter does absolutely not make any sense as criticism of leftys. I could see the former being used as bad faith critisism of leftys, but it would not work well, because leftys would not stop calling a genocide a genocide if the ICC said so ("institutions are not coming to save use, they have been corrupted" would be the lefty response, sort of a "To the friends of the US anything; to the enemies, the law" situation). Again this is not a part of the meme, so I am really not sure how a lefty could interpret the meme as an attack on himself. Either you were just tired or smth. in which case I was a bit too harsh or you are just self centered and can't stop interpreting memes that aren't about you to be about you, in which case I do not retract the condescension.
And that is where the scope of the first quote ends, the second part of the comment is a general explaination of the meme. And I do not blame anybody if they didn't understand what the meme was saying without the explaination, because it comments on a pattern of behaviour of many liberals recently (where I live AND the US), that I and seemingly many others have seen. So it is kind of a (very big ingroup) inside joke. Its a meme, it's referential, not a political essay, yes it oversimplifies things, yes that makes it easy to misunderstand, which is why I was happy to explain it.
c/whooosh
Who the fuck trusts Israel blindly?
Zionists.
Centrists. Republicans.
Post truth meme. No-one can be trusted to represent the truth. Both the international tribunal and the Nationalist government brutalising their neighbours are equally untrustworthy.
Genuinely confused as to how "post truth meme" relates to the second part of the comment.
Why hate on liberals rather than conservatives? It's wasted energy. If "being right" is what bothers you, why are you focusing your energy on the middle? Focus on the right. Dumb.
Look up what MLK had to say about white moderates.
You did not respond to my point.
If far right is your issue, why attack people to the left of the far right? You're pointing at a general problem, then ignoring the worst perpetrators of it. Any energy you spend focusing on the liberals is energy you could have spent focusing on conservatives. That's my point. Please respond to it.
Because liberals are defending genocide too...
You did not respond to my point.
If far right is your issue, why attack people to the left of the far right? You're pointing at a general problem, then ignoring the worst perpetrators of it. Any energy you spend focusing on the liberals is energy you could have spent focusing on conservatives. That's my point. Please respond to it.
Liberals aren't the middle, they're the far right. The second you defend genocide, you no longer get to pretend you're anything but a fascist. Plenty of Nazis felt bad about "the fact" Jews had to be systemically murdered. They weren't not Nazis for thinking that way.
You did not respond to my point.
If far right is your issue, why attack people to the left of the far right? You're pointing at a general problem, then ignoring the worst perpetrators of it. Any energy you spend focusing on the liberals is energy you could have spent focusing on conservatives. That's my point. Please respond to it.
Reread and try again, I did address your point.
But let's pretend Israel doesn't exist and we're talking about make believe liberals.
Those individuals would be smarter than those further to the right of them, and they would care generally about being monsters, at least while we're playing make believe. Those further to the right have no such issue, they accept that they're monsters.
Therefore enacting change would require liberals to move left, regardless of what ~~the lost causes~~ conservatives or the far right does.
Or to put it in an even more oversimplified way, liberals and other right wing but not Nazi people get yelled at, Nazis get punched.
You just said that liberals were far right.
Liberals are to the left of conservatives.
Your insults are pushing away the major party which was closer to your ideology, not further, you waste.
Stop pretending to be morally superior to everyone. You are a selfish drone who parrots things they read on internet forums and claims to be educated and deliberately obstructs the growth of a movement then complains when more people aren't involved with it.
I get it. You feel superior to liberals. But that smug feeling does not solve the problem; cooperation does. And liberals are more likely to cooperate if you find a common enemy with them instead of pushing them away. Please be a better human.
Liberals in the US are supporting genocide, they are not to the left of conservatives, who are also supporting genocide.
For the rest of your generic 2012 era "let's all support the moderate Republican with a d next to his name because he's black" rhetoric, that'd be nice, we tried that, then they supported genocide and used US troops to aide in genocide.
I don't know what you think my ideology is, but genocide isn't it. So no, liberals are not close to my ideology.
Liberals ... are not to the left of conservatives
Your credibility is gone now. This has been fun. Thanks for the laughs!
Because it doesn't matter what we say to those knuckle dragging morons.
Liberals are smart enough to understand. They just refuse to on principle.
You did not respond to my point.
If far right is your issue, why attack people to the left of the far right? You're pointing at a general problem, then ignoring the worst perpetrators of it. Any energy you spend focusing on the liberals is energy you could have spent focusing on conservatives. That's my point. Please respond to it.
So the far right makes all its decisions based on in-group psychology. You cannot make an argument to a right winger that will change their mind. You have to plant seeds of doubt, whole forests of them, and even then the bulldozer that is right wing media will spoil the seeds over and over again.
It's more useful to try and break the liberals out of the illusion that the right will come around and we can work with them.
The best way to actually refute the right is to ignore them and prosper without them, they feed on aspersions and breath purity tests. They are concerned with power purely for the sake of power, and thus will not be talked into sharing it to improve conditions for anyone but capital T themselves.
Also, what fucking right? I'm on Lemmy so I don't have to read their drivel. Go find someone cajoling the left somewhere the right actually exists and make your argument there.
You just said liberals were knuckle-dragging morons, but you want to break them out of their illusions, and (I interpret) win them over to our side.
If you want them to join you, why insult them? Make a common enemy of the conservatives instead. Do you really think you're going to win a battle against both major parties? Make better decisions.
I'm not asking you to condone genocide, I'm asking you to use effective logic and reasoning. Insulting the 99% of Americans who identify as Liberal or Conservative will NOT win you any allies, and while it may feel good to be morally superior to everyone it doesn't solve any real problems. "I don't like either party" because they're all "knuckle-dragging morons" is how we got Trump elected. Kamala isn't perfect by a long shot but she's a measurably better leader than Trump and YOUR obstructionism is the reason we got stuck with him. Be better.
I think your contextual reading might need some work boss. Have another go at my first comment.
It would make more sense if the group I referred to as 'they' and the group I referred to as liberals weren't the same group, wouldn't it?
I'm not willing to volunteer anymore of my time and you can't afford the professional rate.
If people can't understand you it's not because you're smarter than them, it's because you have an inadequate control of the language. Instead of pointing me to different places, backpedaling and making vague blanket corrections You should just speak clearly, there are educational facilities that can help you with this if you haven't been to one.
I'm reclaiming my time to be productive with people that aren't intellectually lazy. I won't be reading your next response. Have a day.
Lmao
Running away when confronted with the amazing revelation that the people I referred to as knuckle dragging morons aren't the same people I referred to as smart enough.
Rip ur clients
Just popping in to agree that your sentence was perfectly clear and I don't understand why stinky had an issue ✌️😂
blocked without reading. my time is important.