this post was submitted on 13 Sep 2024
95 points (97.0% liked)

news

23527 readers
708 users here now

Welcome to c/news! Please read the Hexbear Code of Conduct and remember... we're all comrades here.

Rules:

-- PLEASE KEEP POST TITLES INFORMATIVE --

-- Overly editorialized titles, particularly if they link to opinion pieces, may get your post removed. --

-- All posts must include a link to their source. Screenshots are fine IF you include the link in the post body. --

-- If you are citing a twitter post as news please include not just the twitter.com in your links but also nitter.net (or another Nitter instance). There is also a Firefox extension that can redirect Twitter links to a Nitter instance: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/libredirect/ or archive them as you would any other reactionary source using e.g. https://archive.today . Twitter screenshots still need to be sourced or they will be removed --

-- Mass tagging comm moderators across multiple posts like a broken markov chain bot will result in a comm ban--

-- Repeated consecutive posting of reactionary sources, fake news, misleading / outdated news, false alarms over ghoul deaths, and/or shitposts will result in a comm ban.--

-- Neglecting to use content warnings or NSFW when dealing with disturbing content will be removed until in compliance. Users who are consecutively reported due to failing to use content warnings or NSFW tags when commenting on or posting disturbing content will result in the user being banned. --

-- Using April 1st as an excuse to post fake headlines, like the resurrection of Kissinger while he is still fortunately dead, will result in the poster being thrown in the gamer gulag and be sentenced to play and beat trashy mobile games like 'Raid: Shadow Legends' in order to be rehabilitated back into general society. --

founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
 

The retirement age will be raised for men to 63 years old from 60, while for women in white collar work it would be raised to 58 years from 55. For women in blue collar work it will be increased to 55 from 50.

The changes are set to come into force on Jan. 1, 2025 and be implemented over a 15 year period.

Having people work for longer would ease pressure on pension budgets with many Chinese provinces already reeling from large deficits. But delaying pension payouts and requiring older workers to stay at their jobs longer may not be welcomed by all of them.

TFW you combat liberalism and lose

all 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] Voidance@hexbear.net 65 points 1 month ago

Not cool. Incidentally those replaced retirement ages (60 for men 55 for women) are the same as they had in the USSR.

[–] MelianPretext@hexbear.net 42 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Here's a translation of the actual statute, which I would rather sift through than read the Western coverage take on this:

Decision of the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress on the Implementation of a Gradual Delay in the Statutory Retirement Age

(Adopted on September 13, 2024, at the 11th Meeting of the 14th Standing Committee of the National People's Congress)

In order to thoroughly implement the Central Committee's decision on the gradual delay of the statutory retirement age, adapt to the new demographic situation in China, and make full use of human resources, the 11th Meeting of the 14th Standing Committee of the National People's Congress decides as follows:

Gradual Adjustment of Retirement Age:

Men and Women: The statutory retirement age for male employees will be gradually extended from the current 60 years to 63 years over a period of 15 years. For female employees, the retirement age will be extended from the current 50 and 55 years to 55 and 58 years, respectively, over the same period.

Principles for Implementation: The gradual delay in the statutory retirement age will adhere to principles of incremental adjustment, flexible implementation, differentiated progress, and overall coordination.

Government Responsibilities: Local governments at all levels should actively respond to aging demographics, encourage and support employment and entrepreneurship, safeguard workers' rights, and coordinate efforts related to pension and childcare services.

Approval of Detailed Measures:

The "Measures for the Gradual Delay of the Statutory Retirement Age" issued by the State Council are hereby approved. The State Council may supplement and refine these measures as needed.

Effective Date and Previous Regulations:

This decision will come into effect on January 1, 2025. The provisions regarding retirement age in the "Interim Measures on the Placement of Elderly, Disabled, and Sick Cadres" and the "Interim Measures on the Retirement and Resignation of Workers" approved by the 5th National People's Congress Standing Committee at its 2nd meeting will no longer apply.

Measures for the Gradual Delay of the Statutory Retirement Age

Guided by Xi Jinping's Thought on Socialism with Chinese Characteristics for a New Era, and in deep implementation of the spirit of the 20th National Congress and the 2nd and 3rd Plenaries of the 20th Central Committee, and considering factors such as life expectancy, health levels, population structure, educational attainment, and labor supply, the following measures are enacted for the gradual delay of the statutory retirement age:

Article 1: Starting January 1, 2025:

For male employees and female employees whose statutory retirement age is 55 years, the retirement age will be gradually extended by one month every four months until it reaches 63 years and 58 years, respectively.

For female employees whose statutory retirement age is 50 years, the retirement age will be gradually extended by one month every two months until it reaches 55 years. National regulations will take precedence where applicable.

Article 2:

Starting January 1, 2030, the minimum contribution period for receiving basic pensions will be gradually increased from 15 years to 20 years, with an annual increment of six months. Employees reaching the statutory retirement age but not meeting the minimum contribution period may extend their contributions or make a lump-sum payment to meet the minimum requirement and receive monthly pensions.

Article 3:

Employees meeting the minimum contribution period may voluntarily choose flexible early retirement, up to three years before the statutory retirement age, provided that the retirement age is not lower than the original statutory age of 50 or 55 for women and 60 for men. Employees reaching the statutory retirement age may also choose flexible delayed retirement, up to three years, with mutual agreement from their employer. The implementation must respect employees' wishes and cannot involve compulsory or disguised compulsory retirement.

Article 4:

The country will improve the pension insurance incentive mechanism, encouraging longer, higher, and later contributions for higher benefits. The calculation of basic pensions will be linked to individual contribution years and actual contributions, and personal account pensions will be determined based on retirement age and account balance.

Article 5:

The country will implement a priority employment strategy, promoting high-quality and full employment. The employment public service system will be improved, and lifelong vocational training will be enhanced. Support for youth employment and entrepreneurship will be provided, and job development for older workers and assistance for disadvantaged individuals will be strengthened. Measures against age discrimination in employment will be enhanced, and incentives for employers to hire older workers will be introduced.

Article 6:

Employers hiring workers beyond the statutory retirement age must ensure that workers receive fair wages, rest, labor safety and hygiene, and work injury protection. The rights of flexible employment and new employment form workers will be protected, and paid annual leave systems will be improved.

Article 7:

For individuals receiving unemployment benefits with less than one year until statutory retirement age, the duration of benefits will be extended to the statutory retirement age. During the period of gradual delay, the unemployment insurance fund will pay pension insurance contributions for these individuals as required.

Article 8:

The country will standardize and improve policies on early retirement for special occupations. Workers engaged in underground, high-altitude, high-temperature, or especially strenuous physical labor, as well as those working in high-altitude areas, may apply for early retirement if they meet the conditions.

Article 9:

The country will establish a coordinated pension service system combining home, community, and institutional care, and develop an inclusive childcare service system.

Obviously, the 60-55 retirement age has been one of the policies the goons at places like The Economist have long crocodile teared China on and that tantrum had been greatly memed on by leftists. Most 20th century socialist states maintained a retirement age around 55-60. This is a fairly sizeable clawback of a major worker's concession, there's no really denying it. The age increases to numbers like 63 and 58 for men and women respectively seem to be anticipating a further second increase to 65 and 60, whereupon the statutory age for white and blue collar working women might be even equalized at that stage (i.e. 55 to 60 for the latter). That is the game played in the West, where they seem to be gradually working their way to establishing the full pension retirement age at 70 with current "stretch-goal" numbers like 67 (US, Germany), 68 (UK).

The immediate one-two punch is the basic pension contribution period increase from 15 to 20 years (5 years) when retirement age increased only 3 years. Beyond the policy measures themselves, I would say that the promulgation of this statute indicates that the CPC believes that the demographic issue, and specifically, the decline in the overall working age population are real and rather serious if they would adjust the retirement age like this, a policy that affects the entire population and thus will have inevitable knock-on effects.

Of course, it's arguable that this would merely be a bandage solution to artificially boost the working population numbers rather than addressing the root of the problem. If the CPC weren't currently undergoing through the planned demolition of the real estate sector bubble, I would be seriously concerned at a lack of willingness in addressing, or even identifying, the base causes of the contemporary Chinese demographic issue.

[–] ButtKiss@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 month ago

67 in Australia as well (now, used to be 65), there was an attempt a few years ago to raise it to 70 but it was quashed, probably happen eventually though.

[–] DragonBallZinn@hexbear.net 38 points 1 month ago

We all miss sometimes. desolate

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 33 points 1 month ago (3 children)

I don't understand why immigration into China isn't higher. It'd pretty handily address the problems of a "shrinking workforce."

[–] plinky@hexbear.net 34 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

But even that is dumb (in itself). Just unbind pension into simple formula of taxes=(life expectancy -average age of retirement)/(working time). Can even do dumb referendums among workers every 5 years. Want more taxes and earlier retirement or less taxes and higher age? Instead some weird debt vehicles and deficits (and why in fuck its a province question?)

And immigration implies need for constant growth, which why? Not that china shouldn't accept immigrants, but for more humanitarian reasons.

[–] Xavienth@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

It's less about constant growth now and more about maintenance. As of last year, China's population is declining, meaning over time, their population will be weighted towards the elderly.

[–] plinky@hexbear.net 9 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Lets say new births stopped in china and everyone under 20 is killed. Every year out of 20-60 (working age cohort) 2.5 percent will retire. If your economy growth is 5 percent you are still golden on maintenance front for like 5-7 years.

New births have not stopped nowhere nearly that badly

[–] Moonworm@hexbear.net 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Lets say new births stopped in china and everyone under 20 is killed.
If your economy growth is 5 percent you are still golden

What a hypothetical

[–] plinky@hexbear.net 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Because people under 20 only consume (in the social necessary sense), should i make graphs by taking current birth rate+demographic distribution to show that with increasing labor productivity raising retirement age is a pro-porky move to suppress wages?

[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Is it really true that teenagers don't work in China? I admit that I'm ignorant but surely that can't be right, even if it's just uncompensated labor like helping with the family business or something.

[–] plinky@hexbear.net 4 points 1 month ago

but like realistically what percentage of people work? Say they all work after 17 (thats ignoring universities, whatever), and 20 % of petit bourgeoisie get help from 14 years old children, thats like average age of work start of 16.4.

I dunno, i find weird seeing working 16 year olds, aside from, as you said, manning small shops, maybe

(but i was being flippant for sake of round numbers).

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Dolores@hexbear.net 28 points 1 month ago (1 children)

L within an L why the fuck would they gender a retirement age, what a load of horseshit

[–] coolusername@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

women live longer than men on avg

[–] Dolores@hexbear.net 8 points 1 month ago

irrelevant for a state that should pursue gender equality, and a lower retirement for women is exactly the opposite policy that women living longer would imply

[–] SeekTheDeletion@hexbear.net 6 points 1 month ago

Then you would have them retire later, not earlier. Pensions are calculated based on remaining life expectancy at time of retirement, the older they are the higher the benefit because there’s less expected payments.

Having women retire earlier and live longer is George-Michael stealing a dollar and also stealing a banana. It doesn’t fix the issue, it doubles it

[–] imogen_underscore@hexbear.net 27 points 1 month ago

pretty big L, don't see a need to try and justify this

[–] Sulvor@hexbear.net 24 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I'm not sure why this is getting so much hate. It's necessary to maintain the workforce and care for the elderly population. They have to address the negative consequences of the one child policy, would you rather they just ignore them? This is what a centrally planned economy looks like.

[–] BynarsAreOk@hexbear.net 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Not sure why this type of garbage mainstream econ "common sense" got upvoted.

Respecfuly, read Graeber's BS jobs. China isn't a magical place exempt from those issues. On the contrary, recent years there is an issue with larger youth unemployment due to too many graduates not finding white collar jobs i.e people want BS jobs that pay well and give benefits. It got nothing to do with productivity or the "workforce".

Tell the office workers in every T1 city they have to take 4h off every week to help with local community services for example, or just reduce the work hours in general.

There are solutions, it requires the party to reevaluate their commitment to economic growth at any cost. China is a complicated topic but the easiest way for them to fail is to listen to exactly this type of mainstream western econ shitty rethoric and surprise surprise stupid decisions like this happens exactly when they do that.

[–] carpoftruth@hexbear.net 22 points 1 month ago (1 children)

How much is this informed by rising life expectancy? Chinese life expectancy was 64 years in 1980, 78 now. Increasing working years by 3 while life expectancy has increased by 14 doesn't seem wild, especially with aging population.

[–] plinky@hexbear.net 26 points 1 month ago

a lot obviously, still not pog move.

[–] Pili@hexbear.net 17 points 1 month ago

What the hell Xi? Take that back right now! You think you're Macron, being all neoliberal and shit? You're supposed to set a good example. I hope you get a ton of protests everywhere in China.

[–] TheLepidopterists@hexbear.net 17 points 1 month ago

Obviously ideally you'd never have to raise the retirement age, but I'm not going to presume that I know better than the entirety of the planning apparatus that decided this needed to happen in the PRC.

[–] aaro@hexbear.net 16 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

When you're trying to compete with capitalist nations that will stoop far lower than you to outproduce and then wipe you off the map, you can't deny yourself any advantage. This 0th stage of socialism/state capitalism/central planning making an attempt to do what it needs to do to survive.

Is it good? No, it's terrible. Will it work? Maybe, maybe not, but I see why they have to try something. Is it justified? If it works to outproduce and then defeat the imperial core, yes.

[–] plinky@hexbear.net 25 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Compete in what? Lowest labor compensation? usa growth is fairly ephemeral 1.5 % if one were to remove immigration influence, with some indeterminable amount of that is financialization of human relations (any time you close kindergarten and hire someone to watch a child/instead of elderly grandma you increase gdp after all).

They outproduce them already, they need to show human face instead of race to the bottom with porky, porky has colonies, you can't outcompete in that space.

[–] plinky@hexbear.net 4 points 1 month ago

And i described my ideal solution tbh: give workers a collective choice - bonuses include - (a) not a problem for government anymore (b) manufacturing consent logic - let people have lively debate about some issues not ultimately important to the state (c) same commie logic - let people decide what they want in spheres that can be offloaded from the state

[–] MaoTheLawn@hexbear.net 16 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Eh. Gendering it is weird, but with modern life expectancies an increase in pension age is I suppose expected.

This is probably a stupid idea, but I think beyond 60ish we should all be funnelled into roles as stewards of the land. Paid til retirement. Send out a relaxed patrol of older folk with rubbish claws, hedge trimmers, jet washers. No productivity targets or anything. Park ranger type of thing. Have them going about in their golf carts keeping an eye on things, giving out water refills, spreading seeds, collecting scientific data about bugs and whatnot. Rotate the activities. Their job is to make the world whimsical and beautiful. You can't tell me old people wouldn't love that shit. I would love it, even.

People would absolutely love them too. Imagine a bunch of sweet older folk come down and make your street look great. I'd be leaving snacks out for them. Maybe a bugle call for their arrival.

[–] plinky@hexbear.net 10 points 1 month ago (1 children)

My main issue is that they are doing it completely top down, macron style. Put a vote to unions, would you like to have 30 % tax to fund pensions from 60, or 25% and retirement at 63. Nice easy, everyone happy

[–] Munrock@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

The unions are part of the top legislative body.

[–] marxisthayaca@hexbear.net 15 points 1 month ago (1 children)

That’s still better benefits than the non-existent American retirement

[–] bbnh69420@hexbear.net 38 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Oh wow the people’s republic is better than the Nazi settler state, what a high bar

[–] marxisthayaca@hexbear.net 13 points 1 month ago (2 children)
[–] bbnh69420@hexbear.net 26 points 1 month ago

To be clear, you’re correct and it’s certainly impressive that they built their socioeconomic system without looting the world. I just think we can evaluate some decisions on their own merits

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 14 points 1 month ago

Having people work for longer would ease pressure on pension budgets with many Chinese provinces already reeling from large deficits

The delusional liberal fear of deficits raises it ugly head again, showing just how riven with liberals China really is, those pensions are owed to the workers at state demand, there shouldn't be any "budget" issues unless the state itself is fuckin around and handing that money to speculating capitalists, and without solving that underlying issue delaying the payouts will have no effect on the so-called "problem", even from their liberal epistemology it's just kicking the can down the road

This is total bullshit and a coup for Chinese libs

[–] SkingradGuard@hexbear.net 13 points 1 month ago

That's awful. Please reduce it again

[–] sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 month ago

Massive L tbh. I'm sure they have their reasons but it is still an L

[–] Cowbee@hexbear.net 11 points 1 month ago

Sad to see. Definitely an L, hopefully this is temporary and not indicative of trends.

[–] 2Password2Remember@hexbear.net 10 points 1 month ago

ight im officially anti-Xi now, this is beyond cringe. if you need more money for pension budgets just take it from rich people dumbass

Death to America

[–] Aquilae@hexbear.net 10 points 1 month ago
[–] SeekTheDeletion@hexbear.net 10 points 1 month ago
[–] coolusername@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 month ago

nnnnnnnnoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[–] infuziSporg@hexbear.net 5 points 1 month ago

something something productive forces maybe-later-kiddo

[–] Chimbus@hexbear.net 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Chads born exactly 63 years ago on December 31st must be loving this

[–] plinky@hexbear.net 2 points 1 month ago

If I understood correctly, 48 (end state of rollout is 2040)