this post was submitted on 27 May 2024
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Reading too much into the language seems, at this point, to be less of a danger than reading too little into it.

This week, Israel released an appalling video featuring five female Israeli soldiers taken captive at Nahal Oz military base on October 7. Fearful and bloody, the women beg for their lives while Hamas fighters mill around and alternately threaten to kill them and compliment their appearance. The captors call the women “sabaya,” which Israel translated as “women who can get pregnant.” Almost immediately, others disputed the translation and said sabaya referred merely to “female captives” and included no reference to their fertility. “The Arabic word sabaya doesn’t have sexual connotations,” the Al Jazeera journalist Laila Al-Arian wrote in a post on X, taking exception to a Washington Post article that said that it did. She said the Israeli translation was “playing on racist and orientalist tropes about Arabs and Muslims.”

These are real women and victims of ongoing war crimes, so it does seem excessively lurid to suggest, without direct evidence, that they have been raped in captivity for the past several months. (“Eight months,” the Israelis noted, allowing readers to do the gestational math. “Think of what that means for these young women.”) But to assert that sabaya is devoid of sexual connotation reflects ignorance, at best. The word is well attested in classical sources and refers to female captives; the choice of a classical term over a modern one implies a fondness for classical modes of war, which codified sexual violence at scale. Just as concubine and comfort woman carry the befoulments of their historic use, sabaya is straightforwardly associated with what we moderns call rape. Anyone who uses sabaya in modern Gaza or Raqqah can be assumed to have specific and disgusting reasons to want to revive it.

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[–] Sami@lemmy.zip 91 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (18 children)

This is just straight up racist propaganda. No other way to describe it

sabaya is straightforwardly associated with what we moderns call rape

Absolutely factually incorrect. Sabaya is the plural of sabiye which means young woman/girl. The masculine form is sabi which means boy or shab for young man (not exactly symmetric like use of guy vs girl in english). Zero sexual connotation and used in everyday language in levantine arabic.

[–] ralphio@lemmy.world 40 points 7 months ago

Yep. And the subheading I really have a problem with.

Reading too much into the language seems, at this point, to be less of a danger than reading too little into it.

The implication being that it's low stakes to make this accusation without solid evidence. In reality the whole justification from the West for the state of affairs between Israel and Palestine is that Arabs are a bunch of backwards savages, and this extends to the way the West has acted throughout the Middle East.

[–] wewbull 24 points 7 months ago

Honestly, the use of the word "moderns" is enough to tell you it's a racist interpretation.

[–] xmunk@sh.itjust.works 16 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Isn't Sabaya just like Senorita where they indicate an unmarried young woman? Or, like, Miss?

[–] Sami@lemmy.zip 16 points 7 months ago

Pretty much yes. (Ma)demoiselle vs madame are also used due to french influence over the region for singular use but sabaya is what you would use for a group of younger women with neswein being the alternative for older/married women.

[–] PanArab@lemm.ee -3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

You are confusing سبايا captives (male or female the word is genderless) with صبايا young women

[–] Sami@lemmy.zip 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

At the time, I watched the video and I didn't even catch the word so I thought the claim came from other footage and I was under the impression that it was deliberate misrepresentation of words. I went back to listen to the part where he says it but I still couldn't make it out definitively (maybe that's on me if you can).

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[–] Aidinthel@reddthat.com 70 points 7 months ago

it does seem excessively lurid to suggest, without direct evidence, that they have been raped in captivity for the past several months

But you're just going to do it anyway?

[–] Mrkawfee@lemmy.world 42 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Racist Zionist propaganda.

[–] porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml 16 points 7 months ago

Not to mention projection

[–] zephyreks@lemmy.ml 4 points 7 months ago

but but but my MBFC rating!!111!

[–] footoro@sh.itjust.works 29 points 7 months ago (15 children)

I’m just going to copy & paste my response from an earlier post:

Never thought knowing Palestinian Arabic could become so useful. Sabaya is a very normal word to use for youngish women. Maybe in high Arabic it is a more specific term but in every day language no one in their right mind would think about anything related to pregnancy, that’s just ridiculous. Maybe it’s implied, just like it’s implied in “girl” or “young woman”, but that’s just a very desperate attempt to make it sound more than it actually is.

More background:

In Fusha (high Arabic) there are allegedly like 50 different names for a camel depending on what it’s up to. E.g. it has a different name when it’s drinking, sitting, pregnant, young, old, … very similar to cattle terminology in English: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cattle_terminology

Why I’m mentioning this isn’t because I want to equate women to cattle (please don’t read this out of my comment, that’s not at all what I’m saying just to be very clear). I’m saying it because Arabic is a very rich and complex language. I really don’t know much about Fusha but it can very well be that sabaya means something more specific there in terms of what kind of women these sabaya are exactly. Anyway, even if that were the case in every day language no one would actually try to specifically mention that some woman is capable of getting pregnant.

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[–] RadioFreeArabia@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Sabaya is plural for captives and is genderless, both male and female captives are Sabaya

You don’t have to take my word for it https://translate.google.com/?sl=ar&tl=en&text=سبايا&op=translate

The dictionary definition is:

سَبْي [مفرد]: الجمع: سُبِيّ (لغير المصدر): 1- مصدر سبَى. 2- مأسور “رجلٌ سَبْيٌ”. • السَّبْي: النِّساءُ؛ لأنهنّ يأسرن القلوب، أو لأنهنّ يُسْبَين. II سَبِيّ [مفرد]: الجمع: سَبايا، مؤنث: سَبِيّة وسَبِيّ، جمع مؤنث سَبايا: صفة ثابتة للمفعول من سبَى: مأسور، أسير “أُخذت نساءُ الأعداء سَبايا”.

The definition applies to men and women clearly. 2- مأسور “رجلٌ سَبْيٌ”.

Literally the word means taking something from a place to another, the below example shows how “wine” can be a sabyyah (feminine singular of sabaya) if it is carried from one country to another سَبَى الخَمْرَ،

السَّبْيُ: أَخْذُ شَيْءٍ مِنْ بَلَدٍ إلى بَلَدٍ آخَرَ قَهْراً، يُقال: سَبَى الخَمْرَ، يَسْبِيها، سَبْياً، أيْ: حَمَلَها مِنْ بَلَدٍ إلى بَلَدٍ. ويأْتي السَّبْيُ بِـمعنى الأسْرِ، يُقالُ: سَبَى العَدُوَّ سَبْياً وسِباءً: إذا أَسَرَهُ وأَخَذَهُ قَهْراً، فهو سَبِيٌّ، والأُنْثَى سَبِيَّةٌ ومَسْبِيَّةٌ، والنِّسْوَةُ سَبايا. ومِن مَعانيهِ أيضاً: الإِبْعادُ، ومِنْهُ قَوْلُهُم: سَباكَ اللهُ، أيْ: أَبْعَدَكَ.

The Arabic words for female slave are amat أمة and jariyat جارية , plural إماء Imaa’ and جواري Jawari

[–] Jayjader@jlai.lu 3 points 7 months ago

Late to this thread, but this is disturbingly similar to the media-bashing a French-Palestinian politician has received recently.

She tweeted something along the lines of "time for an uprising" before attending a conference. The following week+ of interviews with her party colleagues were filled with "did you know uprising in Arabic is intifada?! Why is your colleague calling for violence?!?!?!"

Her name is Rima Hassan if you're interested.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Yes, we all know Hamas is bad.

That justifies nothing Israel has done in this war.

[–] SuckMyWang@lemmy.world -1 points 7 months ago (2 children)

As long as people realize it doesn’t justify Hamas’s action either

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

First of all, why does it matter what people realize? Will it stop more killing?

Secondly, I think the vast majority of people in this world understand that Hamas is a terrorist group that should not be supported.

People are supporting Palestinians, not Hamas.

[–] RedditRefugee69@lemmy.world 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Thank you. I think this nuance is often lost by those barely paying attention

[–] SuckMyWang@lemmy.world -2 points 7 months ago

I agree. Over 60% of Palestinian people (some of who are loosely affiliated with Hamas, some of who are friends and family with Hamas fighters, some who joined Hamas as they invaded Israel and some who are Hamas fighters) support Hamas and it’s very reasonable to assume these same people agree with the actions of Hamas (invading, mudering innocent people, kidnapping innocent people) on October 8. And yes it’s sometimes a very blurry line between an innocent civilian, a civilian giving support, a civilian carrying a weapon to supply to fighters, a civilians knowingly manufacturing items that are used by Hamas fighters and Hamas fighters.

[–] deft@lemmy.wtf 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Israel created this situation, perpetuates the violence and has a history of SA against Palestinians. Fuck Israel anyone who wants to shove Hamas into the conversation is braindead

[–] SuckMyWang@lemmy.world -2 points 7 months ago (1 children)
[–] deft@lemmy.wtf 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Because no matter how you slice it one is the dominant partner here. Nobody is defending Hamas but people justify Israel.

Moronic

[–] SuckMyWang@lemmy.world -2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I find it moronic that as the default people seem to root for the underdog seemingly because they are the underdog and not because one side is morally superior than the other. They’re both shitty in their own ways

[–] deft@lemmy.wtf 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Nah don't bomb brown kids and stop equating hamas to Palestinians foh

[–] SuckMyWang@lemmy.world -1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

You shouldn’t rocket brown kids (many Israelis) either

[–] deft@lemmy.wtf 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Moron absolutely the dumbest person lol

[–] SuckMyWang@lemmy.world -1 points 7 months ago

Well, you clearly implied one side is brown and the other isn’t so you might need to spend some time doing some self reflection.

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