this post was submitted on 26 Feb 2024
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Every Christian I have talked to about this subject is vehemently against killing transgender people. What does my belief in God have to do with my opinion on not killing trans people?
Christians are not really known for being champions for transgender folks. Catholics and Orthodox are official opposed to the existence of trans folks as a whole, since it does not work well with their binary view on gender.
Okay? That's a them problem. I'm not a Roman Catholic nor an Orthodox. Still never seen an Orthodox or a Catholic person advocate for the killing of trans people though.
They just say you don't exist, which at least does not help.
I've seen Atheists say that. Including Dawkins. Killing people and saying someone's belief in their own gender is or isn't valid are different things, though.
But there is no atheists dogma or teaching that can be a base for discrimination of trans people. Obviously individual atheist can be transphobic unrelated to their believe that there is no god. On the other hand christian transphobes will often root their transphophia in their christian believe.
Invalidating trans folks existence is often predecessor of violence against trans people.
Christianity doesn't have dogma on the trans issue. Dawkins would argue that biologival sex is a scientific fact. The Bible just says that God created people as man and woman. What does me being a Christian have to do with Christian transphobes, and why would you bring up my religion when I literally just expressed disgust at the murder of a transgender person?
Dude?
So? He rationalizes his transphobia with his poor understanding of human biology, psychology and sociology, which are all not his fields of expertise by the way, and more importantly unrelated to atheism. If he was Karamazov, than maybe you would have a point.
At best you participate in a believe system that promotes violence against trans people by invalidating their existence. So your disgust seems rather disingenuous, or you haven't really reflected on this whole topic at all.
What.
You have troubles reading?
Christian dogma of two genders invalidated the existence of trans folks, which in turn promotes violence against trans people. Since you haven't explicitly stated your own believes but you self identify as christian, it's reasonable to assume that you adhere to basic Christian dogma. This assumption is supported by your stance on abortion, which means you are more of a fundamentalist christian.
Not once did I mention Christianity as being my basis for my stance on Abortion.
So what would make you happy then? If I stopped being Christian? Because it sounds like you want me to choose between being Christian and being pro violence against trans people, even though it's a bit of a stretch to say that the Bible saying God created people male and female is promoting violence against trans people.
Sure, you just can't come up with any other reasoning (we have a rather long conversation, so you had plenty of opportunities). But please enlighten me on how your stance on abortion, is not result of you moral views that stem from your believe in Christianity.
Not needing to have a conversation on abortion and human rights for trans people, would make me happier. But that is besides the point. I just pointed out, that it's somehow bizarre for me, that people who invalidate trans people whole existence are surprised by the violence trans people experience and are not able to see a connection.
Because foetuses look like children and can feel pain, have a heartbeat, etc. If anything I'd be more pro life if I was atheist as at least I know that they go to heaven. But this isn't our abortion discussion.
I never invalidated transgender people's whole existence. But if you want me to not be vocal against killing people (as it seems you don't want me to by my first argument) then fine. I guess my Christian belief of "you shall not kill" is too radical and should be kept to myself.
But that is not your reasoning. Your state that after implantation abortion is murder. A blastocyst does not look like a child, does not feel pain and does not have a heart to begin with. So who are you kidding and why are you not trusting in your own faith?
Sure, I just assumed you follow the most common christian doctrine as defined by the bible and major Christians sects. Feel free to correct me at any time.
Christians love being victims. What about the other cheek my friend? Jesus was a cool dude, what the fuck happened to his followers? I personally blame Peter.
You don't have to strictly be for killing them, you can just be against their existence, and someone else will take that to its logical conclusion.
"Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest"
I think it is true that Christians who are against violence against trans people should be far more vocal over it. But the general thing I hear isn't really wanting to get rid of trans people, more of if they should be validated as their desired gender or not, or how children should be approached about the topic.
the existence of trans people is quite literally conditional on them being validated as their desired gender.
if you don't validate them, then when they keep doing trans stuff (like transitioning), you will freak out and attempt to stop them. For example by sending them to conversion therapy. And it should be obvious to any basically humanist person why that's a bad idea.
No, because there are no effective conversion therapies that work, and it can make the situation worse. It's not a binary. You don't have to choose between "oh yeah sure let's change the signs on bathrooms! You can compete in women's sports and be in women spaces, too! Oh and please go and tell these children all about your sex change!" and "send them all to conversion therapy at gunpoint". I don't know why you keep jumping to conclusions so quickly and freak out at me stating the fact that killing people is abhorrent. Because apparently I am not allowed to condemn the murder of a young girl because I, like 2.38 billion other people, think that Jesus of Nazareth from 2024 years ago made a convincing case for actually being God.
and also what is the alternative you propose that's neither acceptance or forced conversion?
"separate but equal"? "keep that stuff at home"? no thank you, i'd rather be part of society. separate but equal is never actually equal.
I didn't propose anything. I'm not a politician, lol
I assume have something to say about it, or you wouldn't be posting trying to defend your opinion.
So far I've seen that you don't want to kill us and you don't want to try to force us to stop existing, but you don't seem to want to accept us either. so what else is there?
I just don't want to be infiltrated by it personally. I love you and accept you as a human being. I am against anything that may put women in danger or mislead children. If you don't want to do that, then I don't really care. You should know that you are loved and are human like the rest of us. You aren't anything less or more than me. And I don't think any less of you for your gender identity, and I wish other Christians stopped being so aggressive about that either.
Except when it comes to abortions, than you are all for putting women in danger.
What does this even mean?
You literally asked what I meant by it after trying to 'respond' to me saying what I meant. Lol.
This made me chuckle because that's exactly how I read the posts. I was like.. what? Okay. Sounds like how my mom used to argue with me. "What do you mean? You meant this! That's what you meant! Don't explain yourself now, I already caught you in an inconsistency! I didn't put words in your mouth, you did!" LOL moms.
Not really. First was just a dig at your inconsistencies. Second was a try to get your actual opinion out of you.
Competing in women's sports and participating in women's spaces is part of existing as a woman. And if you accept that trans people exist and aren't inherently harmful or disgusting, then children learning about their existence isn't so bad either.
btw the bathroom thing is just common sense. if a bathroom is single occupancy, it shouldn't be gender separated. this has little to do with trans people.