this post was submitted on 26 Jan 2024
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[–] Therealgoodjanet@lemmy.world 41 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Who wants to place a bet if Israel is going to give a shit?

My vote is on “keep going and keep denying”.

[–] maynarkh@feddit.nl 24 points 9 months ago

ICJ orders Israel to take measures to prevent and punish direct incitement of genocide

ICJ ruling does not explicitly order a ceasefire

Israel’s security minister responds to ICJ ruling by tweeting 'Hague Shmague'

Israel will continue to defend itself while adhering to international law, says Netanyahu

Gentlemen don't bet on a sure thing.

[–] Hyperreality@kbin.social 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (3 children)

I know Biden gets a lot of shit for it, but I suspect this is also one of the reasons why the Biden administration has delayed criticising Netenyahu and been very cautious in doing so.

They know Netenyahu would ignore them anyway, that it would damage their alliance with Israel, and have probably come to the conclusion that being too strong wouldn't help remove him from power.

Articles like this seem to back up my theory:

After cautious criticism by Biden, Netanyahu rallies Israel’s right wing

Not that I agree with the logic, but that might partly explain it.

[–] anlumo@lemmy.world 19 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Then Biden is ignoring that this might cost him the reelection that’s coming up. Left-leaning people even in the US aren’t that keen on genocide, and a lot of them might just elect to stay at home rather than voting for an enabler.

[–] filister@lemmy.world 8 points 9 months ago (1 children)

The saddest thing is that you don't have much choice do you. It is either Biden or Trump and then you need to decide what's the lesser evil, isn't it?

Tell me again how a dual-political system is again considered a democracy?

[–] anlumo@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago

The worst thing about it is that both parties are neoliberal. On the economics side, it's just an illusion of choice. They only differ on social issues.

[–] small44@lemmy.world 6 points 9 months ago (1 children)

All presidents are pro-israel nothing will change if he loses

[–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com -1 points 9 months ago

People aren't rational.

[–] DdCno1@kbin.social -4 points 9 months ago (2 children)

The vast majority of American voters support Israel in this war and do not consider what Israel is doing a genocide (55ff.):

https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/HHP_Jan24_KeyResults.pdf

I think you fell into the common trap of believing that your particular filter bubble is representative of the general consensus.

[–] OccamsTeapot@lemmy.world 17 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Over 1/3 of voters say it's genocide. Which party do you think they will skew towards? Given that the last election was pretty close it doesn't look great.

[–] DdCno1@kbin.social -4 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Go back a few pages and see that only 2% of voters consider Israel the most important issue. Next to nobody is going to base their voting decision on Biden's Israel policy.

[–] OccamsTeapot@lemmy.world 8 points 9 months ago

Not the most important doesn't mean "not important" though. The idea that someone will be like "well you know I don't approve of my tax money being used to commit a genocide but man did he help bring down inflation" is quite funny to me.

I would guess you are right. What worries me is that you're wrong and Trump wins again, is even worse for Palestinians and literally everyone else as well. I'm not saying it's a logical thing to do but people are not always logical. And what does Biden gain again?

[–] NoIWontPickaName@kbin.social 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

It’s not a problem that we’re trying to get him to fail then. Surely only 2% of people won’t make any difference so why are you trying to stop us?

[–] DdCno1@kbin.social -5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Because you can never be too careful. Yes, it's almost certainly not a problem, but don't tempt fate. Biden is the best choice by a country mile, for everyone involved. This doesn't mean he's perfect, he most certainly isn't, but neither is any other politician in all of human history. Vote for the least flawed of the leading two candidates in your system. Doing anything else - third party, abstaining - only benefits fascists.

[–] NoIWontPickaName@kbin.social 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I’m not tempting fate, I am deliberately trying to make sure we get what we deserve for supporting a genocide supporting and enabling president.

Maybe trump 2 will make people realize that supporting genocide won’t help you win an election.

Maybe you guys will think twice before supporting genocide again.

You guys love to watch innocent people burn and die?

Time to bring that shit home to roost!

[–] DdCno1@kbin.social -5 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Burning the house down instead of cleaning up your room has never been a viable strategy.

[–] OccamsTeapot@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago

Nor has just pointing out that your brother's room is even messier

[–] NoIWontPickaName@kbin.social 0 points 9 months ago (2 children)

It is when you intend to rebuild from scratch.

[–] Syntha@sh.itjust.works 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

What exactly are you hoping for, I'm genuinely curious. The collapse of the American state, violent revolution, a civil war?

[–] NoIWontPickaName@kbin.social 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Yes, we go full on French and bring out the guillotine.

We can get it done and get it over, and we start to rebuild in a better way

[–] bramblepatchmystery@slrpnk.net 1 points 9 months ago

I would read about the early days of the Bolsheviks having taken power.

Within weeks they realized they could not rebuild from scratch and began making deals with middle managers to run the factories.

The Czar's intelligence apparatus was folded in (how could it not, they were the only people who could give insight on how to deal with the Germans and English).

If you get your way with your little temper tantrums, you are going to find you didn't create a better system, you just found a new system to legitimize killing those you don't like.

But the truth is, you already know all this. All your explanations are just pretenses so that actual leftists might not realize that you are one of the fascists we have to deal with.

[–] NoIWontPickaName@kbin.social 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I bet there are enough of us that’s are against genocide that we can make him fail the reelection

[–] DdCno1@kbin.social 2 points 9 months ago (2 children)

And then you get Trump. Ever looked up his Israel policy? Got any other brilliant ideas?

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Maybe just do the right thing. Clinton lost because of 80,000 votes from 3 states. You don’t think that can happen again because of a genocide ?

[–] NoIWontPickaName@kbin.social -2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Tell me something, how many genocides did that stupid motherfucker support?

[–] HarkMahlberg@kbin.social 6 points 9 months ago (1 children)

My guy, did you forget how COVID killed over a million Americans while Trump did nothing?

[–] NoIWontPickaName@kbin.social -3 points 9 months ago

I’d rather someone who does nothing for good rather than someone who does a ton for evil.

Trump is inept. Biden tricked us just like Fetterman

[–] arymandias@feddit.de 10 points 9 months ago

No one is forcing Biden to export weapons to Israel, knowing full well they are being used to commit war crimes.

[–] Milk_Sheikh@lemm.ee 7 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Yes, but the US iced out Pakistan and leaned into Jordan after Bin Laden was discovered in Abottabad and AQA millitants routinely received refuge in Pakistan. Alliances need to serve both sides and Netanyahu’s refusal to deescalate or take the off-ramp and let Israel move on from his policy failures, has put Biden and the US atop a geopolitical powder keg.

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)
[–] Milk_Sheikh@lemm.ee 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Plus the literal interpretation of some Saudi royal family member owning a milk empire is very funny to me

[–] SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca -3 points 9 months ago

Most countries don't take advice from people that hate them and want to see them destroyed.

But of course you'll probably continue to think that if you scream even louder about how much you hate Israel maybe Israel will listen to you.

Meanwhile in the real world, Israel is not committing genocide. People wouldn't be calling for a ceasefire if there was actual genocide going on because a ceasefire would mean Hamas would no longer be able to protect Palestinian civilians from a genocidal army. Calls for a ceasefire is an admission that a) Hamas is not protecting the civilian population and b) civilian casualties are only occurring because of conflict between Israel an Hamas. Civilian casualties that occur because of a conflict is a part of a war. Genocide is when civilians are directly targeted, which can happen while in a state of ceasefire, which is what happened on October 7.

Nobody calls for the perpetrators of the genocide that occurred on October 7 to surrender and face justice, because we all know it's pointless. Actual perpetrators of genocide do not respect the law. When people call on Israel for ceasefire, call on Israel to make more effort to reduce civilian casualties it is an admission that Israel does respect the law.

The accusations of genocide is simply an attempt to motivate people into attacking Jews in Israel... and sometimes even Jews elsewhere in the world. It's all about increasing hostilities and wanting more people to die out of anger over the people currently dying in a conflict which was started by Hamas.

The calls for ceasefire is all about people wanting Yahya Sinwar to survive so he can fight another day and continue this conflict long term. Ideally Sinwar should face justice for the genocide he ordered. But it's doubtful that he will surrender himself, so the most likely scenario is that he will be killed, either directly by an IDF soldier or buried alive in an underground bunker constructed to keep him safe while leaving the Palestinian people at the mercy of an army that Hamas claims to be committing genocide. The myth of the fascist strongman leader in all of it's glory.

Now people will scream emotion at me thinking their emotion will somehow change the rules of logic. You may even report my post and have a moderator remove it because this "Israel is committing genocide" hateful meme can't survive the light of truth and basic logic. It only can survive in a place where hated dominates discussion.