this post was submitted on 07 Oct 2023
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Yeah, it’s gotten to a point where the divide is so deep and so old and there has been so much slaughter on each side that nobody is ever going to feel like “things are fair now.“ Both groups have committed atrocities, both groups have been victims of atrocities, and it’s just become a vendetta at this point with endless retaliation.
I don’t know what the answer is to be honest.
I'd love to watch the chaos unfold if they were made sure the civilians were safe. Azerbaijan achieved that, I don't know why Israel and Palestine can't.
Hamas doesn't want to give up using their own people as human shields (not to mention the hostages they now have) and putting military facilities in immediate proximity to mosques and hospitals, because they enjoy a propaganda advantage when the mosques and hospitals are collateral damage. The Gaza Strip could have had it's own power and water plants decades ago if the political leadership used the Israeli and international aid for building such facilities instead of pocketing it.
I've always been a fan of just making the middle east one giant country, and divide it into thousands of districts, which get representation in the central area( which can definitely not be anywhere important.) This would require Israel and many countries to come together and prefer diplomacy to slaughter though, so it will never happen.
Islamists want to be ruled under Islamic regime as depicted in Quran. In fact, all Muslim countries in the middle east abide by this. Unfortunately, they're also fully dead set on this.
As an added bonus, Jews are literally "race that was despised by Allah (translating from Turkish here, might not be correct)" so there's absolutely zero chance anything diplomatic could happen. Even if Israel decides to give everything up.
The potential solution would be Turkiye managing this situation but that's even more outlandish.
I think you overestimate how many Palestinians believe this. I'm my family in gaza, we had Jewish friends. My father was best friends with a jew for many years. So many of us just want to live in peace, alongside people who do not want to kill us. Yes, there are a few zealots who believe this, and many leaders base their power directly on their bloodlust for Israel. Most of them hate Israel and their actions more than thier religion. I know Israel is much the same to us. If everyone who truly believes this died in one night, there would be no mourning for them, and a great cry of peace and relief would reach to the heavens, saying " let God sort out religions when we die, and not people sort out when we die by religion ".
Interesting. I'm Turkish, had Palestinian and Jordanian(?) friends along with Turkish friends alongside buddies who served in healthcare for both sides. Just about everyone who were religious in those groups had a burning hatred for Israel specifically. To a point where they get happy whenever things happen to religious people. We're not just talking about some zealots here, we're talking about more than half the people I know.
This is why I assumed it's quite literally impossible. Interesting that it actually might be!
I know I have celebrated when Israel suffers a defeat, but not the death of regular Jews, or Israeli civilians.
All I know is that the Islamic Brotherhood students I met at Tel Aviv University very clearly wanted to kill me. I was warned off showing any interest in a non-observant muslim fellow student that was sweet on me because the very same group of Brotherhood guys beat the last person who she was sweet and left him for dead. The older Israeli Arab muslims I met that were shop owners, etc. were much more chill. And Arab Israeli Christians (think more ethnicity than religion) were very split - they didn't like what was happening with Arab muslims, but they also had ZERO interest in being part of a Palestinian state. They knew very well where they would be treated better, much like the Druize.
I cannot speak for them, but it is very different to not want a foreigner who is not from your religion to date a Muslim, than it is to want to kill all Jews. Of course, it is very bad to take it to the level of a beating, or to make that choice for someone else, and what they did is bad. What I often see is a few zelots in a groups of people who don't care for Jews, but don't want to kill them. It is very difficult to stand for a stranger who is outside your culture, and defend them, without being labeled as an enemy of your own culture. My father was clear to us that Jews were not evil because they are Jews, just as Muslims are not all good because of their religion. He was friends with a small family of Jews living in Gaza near us. I do not think he would want me to date them, but he was happy that we could be friends.
Actually Jewish-Muslim relationship before the foundation of Israel was pretty good. Including Muslims helping Jews in WW2 to escape the Nazis. There were also some good examples in the early 20th century of Palestinians and Jewish people living together.
Unfortunately when the Zionist started their project, these communities were the first they targeted with terrorism. The same militias who committed these attacks later became the core of the first Israeli army.
Another decisive factor against coexistence was once Jewish immigration en masse started, Palestinians stopped being employed as Jewish employers started hiring Jewish immigrants. Several Pan Arab intellectuals thought there could be peaceful coexistence before this point.