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I have problems with people who abstained. The hard thing is, how do you change voter behavior?
this post was submitted on 06 Feb 2025
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I will never look down on someone who voted or refused to vote because of thier conscience. Obviously for this specific question, that excludes people claiming to care about gaza, but still voting for trump. There was no illusion that trump was going to do anything positive for gaza.
I know plenty of supposed leftists (really these are people who spend 90% of their time criticizing liberals and calling them "shitlibs") who are relieved that Trump is in office, say that he is better than Kamala on Gaza, and believe that America's descent into fascism will spur a revolution that will save humanity.
Don't underestimate people's stupidity.
In fairness, it is possible that it takes a decent into fascismto wake the people up. Or it could be like ww2, where it gives the world a common enemy to defeat. Noone knows. So they could be right. Less probable things have happened... like trumps 1st term. Noone saw that coming 4 years before it happened. The reality is that noone knows what the result of thier actions will really be on the world stage.
You should. They only bring about worse situations at best. Pretending to be moral when what you're doing is the opposite is pure hypocrisy.
You are welcome to your own definition of things like moral, only, and pure hypocrisy. But understand that your lack of tolerance is why many of those people didn't vote.
No, they didn't vote because they don't understand how reality works and think that problems will go away or won't exist if they just ignore them
Or the opposite, they know nothing will change if they keep voting for someone from the same two parties.
Except not voting does create change. Change to fascism.
Germany changed to fascism, and now look at them. The world united against them, and now they are a democracy again. Maybe it's like ripping off a bandaid. Or like addiction (in this case to money and greed), where you often have to hit rock bottom to truely recover. I have no idea. No one knows. So no point spending your hate on nonvoters, focus it on the ones actively doing wrong. And don't get distracted.
Remember, the most constructive thing you can do is get mad at other, equally powerless people like yourself! This is how political change happens.
Remember! People aren't powerless! Voting is a power! Not voting is not how political change happens
The russian people get to vote. How is that is working out for them?
They "get to vote". Their votes don't actually matter, at all. We are not yet in a position like Russia's.
When all we can vote for are one of two people who don't represent us, but instead represent themselves and the rich... I would say we are close enough.
Harris wouldn't cut osha lmfao they're n5it the same
Never said they would do the same thing. I said neither of the represent our interests.
that's a good point
I wonder what would happen if the Democrats tried to activate those chronic non-voters, rather than trying to flip those moderate republicans i keep being told are real
Voting is a power that has been consistently weakened for the past four decades in the United States, and is completely useless in a two party system with two captured parties. Political change has historically been accomplished with money and violence; it is extraordinarily rare for countries to vote themselves out of the slide to fascism.
A vote not used is a vote for oppression. Get out an organize, run for election, etc. change is still possible
Getting out and organizing strikes/protests and building third-party grassroots political movements are absolutely great suggestions; neither are voting. Both of them require a significant amount of additional effort than voting. In fact, you may even notice that one requires money, and the other often implies a threat of further violence.
A large reason we are in this is because Americans see voting as the be-all end-all to their political participation. It is the absolute weakest tool to actually enact change in the U.S. political system.
Yes, voting isn't the only action. As a union steward, I'm well aware. People should use multiple tools, but at a MINIMUM people need to vote(as long as we remain mildly democratic).
It is a very strong tool in preventing down sliding.
It really does baffle me that some people think a lack of an effort will bring about change.
Removing your support from a party you previously supported is an effort to bring about change. Evidenced by the democrats trying to figure out how to get people to vote for them again.
I bet you think divorce is a bad thing too.
Divorce isn’t something from nothing, so I’m not too sure what that false equivalency is supposed to do for you.
You cannot expect action from inaction.
Its the same type of situation: would you make the best of a bad situation or blow it up? Would you vote for the lesser evil or abstain/vote third party?
Voting for the lesser evil is a no brainer considering the threat America faced. In better times, I’d absolutely agree with the ideology.
Now is not those times.
I guess you never just ignored a toddler... lots of action comes from that inaction.
How are you enjoying the divorce so far? Got what you wanted out of it?
It wasnt a personal reference. The point I'm making is that it tends to be overwhelmingly bad relationships end in divorce, as they should. It would be awful if people were forced to stay in bad situations like that.
The democrats have a horrible relationship with their party members, and so many chose divorce, rightly so.
Yes, I know you still think this is about political parties. It was not then and it certainly is not now. It was about stopping America from becoming the one-party fascist state it has now become.
You can complain about the Democrats all you want. They are no longer an entity because there is only one legitimate political party in America right now- the one in control of all three branches of government that will never, ever give that up willingly.
So, again, I hope you got all you wanted out of the divorce.
Well the DNC is now forced to either pull their collective head out their ass or destroy themselves in spite. We'll see how it goes.
You actually think the Democratic Party will ever have any real power ever again? Or any party other than the Republican Party?
You actually think the Republican Party will ever willingly give up power?
You still think these people give a shit about the law?
Amazing. Just amazing.
Maybe you should give up on the democrats then. But its not their fault of course.
I would like you to find one shred of evidence that I was ever a Democrat or supported their party.
Then I would like you to explain why you think I give a fuck who's fault it is at this point.
Single issue voting is a reactionary tendency. I don't think moral people are going "lets pick one issue and decide based on that". This is a person whose easily manipulated and not moral.
A moral person goes "am I doing more harm than good" and puts effort into engaging with that.