this post was submitted on 26 Oct 2024
114 points (96.0% liked)

politics

22270 readers
339 users here now

Protests, dual power, and even electoralism.

Labour and union posts go to !labour@www.hexbear.net.

Take the dunks to /c/strugglesession or !the_dunk_tank@www.hexbear.net.

!chapotraphouse@www.hexbear.net is good for shitposting.

Do not post direct links to reactionary sites.

Off topic posts will be removed.

Follow the Hexbear Code of Conduct and remember we're all comrades here.

founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
 

While I've honestly been trying to tune out the election shit, I was streaming the world series feed (through completely legal means I can assure you) from a Fox station in Florida. Much to my dismay, I was completely bombarded by these ads saying Trump supports amendement 3 which would legalize weed in the state. I scroll on social media for like 5 mins later on and I see this fucker on Joe Rogan.

Its a pretty clear attempt at targeting independent socially moderate/liberalish fiscally conservative independent bros that, honestly exist and could decide the election if its close. All while Kamala is really leaning into winning over "dick cheney democrats" that dont exist outside of focus groups in the beltway.

Im calling it now. Trumps winning again.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] commiewithoutorgans@hexbear.net 38 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

I'm convinced democrats genuinely believe, wholeheartedly, that politics must be a scale from "left to right" within the bounds of America, and meanwhile the republicans are focussed on topics which they find important.

Democrats seem to think that, regardless of the specific topic, a shift right gets more votes for democrats. Like there is a literal line and you pick up more the further right you go, and this in the most literal way you can imagine

Republicans choose topics that fire people up and take the right wing position on them. It's a much more successful method of getting support, and maintaining energy. They don't give a shit about some scale, they just want to do whatever is the option that supports wealth accumulation and imperialism as best as possible. It makes sense, at least, if you're a ghoul.

Democrats try to run on being trusted to understand the scale on which they sit, republicans run on policies they want to do.

It's not the only reason they will win, but it's the one most obvious between the two imperial-fuckers running for president

[–] KobaCumTribute@hexbear.net 31 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

I think it's simpler than that: their consultant class principally comes from the exact same class as the GOP base, with the exact same material interests and cultural biases, they just think themselves smarter and more elite than the baying hogs they share 99% of their interests and beliefs with. Democrats triangulate as their advisors tell them to, while remaining entirely subservient to Capital.

They have no beliefs or principles other than that managerial technocratic devotion to the status quo and American hegemony, but even there they're so vapid and uninspired they just get led about by grifters and fall into this doublethink of "it's bad for political leadership to lead and try to influence political opinion, so we won't ever do that at all, except it's good to influence political opinion in favor of American capitalist hegemony and the police state and all the atrocity that supports this so we will furiously cleave to that party line and purge any and all dissent."

They have fully rotted away into this entirely hollow shell of managerial technocrats in the past decades as some advancement of gerontocracy and the further maturation of the lobbyist grift complex, to the point that they're not even competent at their cynical hegemony maintenance role anymore.

[–] commiewithoutorgans@hexbear.net 6 points 2 weeks ago

I fully agree with this in the way that American politics works in reality.

I just think that many democrats genuinely see themselves as the good guys trying to be as far "left" as possible within the bounds of what's politically reasonable. And when you have those in that mindset, and the people choosing to vote, what I was describing is how that phenomenon internally works.

[–] Diuretic_Materialism@hexbear.net 14 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

Democrats seem to think that, regardless of the specific topic, a shift right gets more votes for democrats. Like there is a literal line and you pick up more the further right you go, and this in the most literal way you can imagine

There is the unfortunate fact that I do think the American people are just genuinely more right wing on certain topics than we care to admit, I.e. immigration and trans rights. Thing is Harris is just being really willy nilly about what her policies are right now so she's alienating voters on both sides. Trumps explicate about what he wants and so buys loyalty from his base.

There are popular progressive policies Harris could campaign on, like healthcare and abortion, but the Dems don't actually want to do any of that shit.

[–] catonkatonk@hexbear.net 15 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

There is the unfortunate fact that I do think the American people are just genuinely more right wing on certain topics than we care to admit, I.e. immigration and trans rights.

I don't think these reactionary ideas fell out of a coconut tree.

[–] AutoVomBizMarkee@hexbear.net 15 points 2 weeks ago

I’m surprised the fascist genocidal settler state is so right wing!

[–] DancingBear@midwest.social 4 points 2 weeks ago

Unless that coconut came with a little note inside of it along with a corporate dark money PAC contribution

[–] REgon@hexbear.net 10 points 2 weeks ago

I honestly don't know about the trans/immigration thing. Even in a time where people are being bombarded with propaganda, there's still broad support for trans people's right not to be discriminated https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2022/06/28/americans-complex-views-on-gender-identity-and-transgender-issues/
I think if people were actually educated about medical transition, then they'd support that too.
Migration is more difficult. I can only find studies of dem/gop-voters and I'll give you that most of them are ghouls. According to another PEW study more than half think the "border crisis" has been handled badly https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/06/06/immigration-attitudes-and-the-2024-election/

There's lots of issues with these studies and I don't think the US is in any way non-ghoulish, but I don't think it's as dire as you describe

[–] DancingBear@midwest.social 7 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

People are actually a lot more “left wing” on specific policies than it seems, you just wouldn’t know it because the media straight up lies to everyone about it.

[–] Bay_of_Piggies@hexbear.net 4 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

I really don't think this is true. People's lived experiences don't direct them to these positions. It's our lying media, and lying politicians who inject this shit into the populace then point to the effects of their bullshit as proof that these are real problems real Americans have issues with.

[–] Diuretic_Materialism@hexbear.net 5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

It's our lying media, and lying politicians who inject this shit into the populace

I don't think this is a very materialist analysis. Media and politicians have always lied, people "fall", or should I say "buy into" those lies when they have a material incentive too.

https://redsails.org/masses-elites-and-rebels/

[–] Bay_of_Piggies@hexbear.net 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Acknowledging that the bougeroise manufacture consent through their mouth pieces in media and politics is not anti-materialist. Folks are really struggling and those who control the means of communication direct people to a scapegoat.

[–] infuziSporg@hexbear.net 13 points 2 weeks ago

turning a big dial taht says "Genocide" on it and constantly looking back at the audience for approval like a contestant on the price is right

[–] DancingBear@midwest.social 6 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I think it’s not that complicated.

She is choosing to side with her corporate political donors over policy that supermajorities of Americans on the right and the left agree with.

Neither Trump nor Kamala care about actual policies that help voters. They care about donor money over everything else.

Trump literally publicly does quid pro quo….. Kamala and all the other corporate dems and republicans do it slightly less obviously. Republicans are way worse on this issue in general, but it’s only a matter of degree.

I don’t think republicans run on any actual policy other than tax cuts, but it’s a great political message to say that you stand with legalization