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I had a buddy, and we talked in great detail about this. I chase challenges, and am always looking for the next big puzzle to muddle my way through. He chased freedom. He just wanted to be who he was and spend his time how he wanted.
My point is people are motivated by different things. Find your thing and pursue it. Don't worry what anyone else is doing. You don't answer to them, and they're not any happier than you.
Living your authenticity is fulfilling.
The caveat is don't conflate freedom/motivation with being a dick. Live the life that you want to live, but if that involves disparaging certain demographics for ethically and/or morally wrong reasons, then maybe live a better life than the one you really want to live. This doesn't apply to most people, but there are some out there that should read it and take it to heart.
Mate, I'd definitely prefer loose leaf tea but can't be arsed with the extra hassle
There are dozens of us
As long as you feel you want to avoid responsibilities, please do so in a responsible way. Use condoms every time, and don't get involved with a person who wants children. Be a good support-player at work so your manager doesn't have to be a bitch (they still might, in which case support your coworkers). And contribute in low-effort ways like donating an occasional pint of blood if you're eligible, or offering to put someone else's cart away at the grocery store. Just being a decent person is enough.
There are a ton of negative comments on here, but i think the reality is: people value different things.
When you have certain values you will sacrifice certain things to practice those values/achieve those goals.
Some people value charity work because helping the community and people makes them feel good--even if it's more work on their plate.
Some people sacrifice their personal lives to achieve a career goal. Sometimes that's for financial reasons, sometimes that's for ego reasons, sometimes it's "meeting a challenge".
Some people will sacrifice their career to have less stress or focus on their family. Some people value their hobbies, relationships, personal interests to the point where they'll pick jobs that let them focus on those things--even if those jobs don't pay as well, even if they aren't "progressing" up the ladder.
And for what it's worth, your values (may) shift over time. I never wanted kids for the longest time. Then I did.
I valued career progression for ego and financial reasons--and now, that's shifted.
I sacrificed spending time with my friends when I had my kid, but now I am putting a lot of effort into those friendships because I value them and that requires work. That means I didn't take a job offer that would have paid more, so I would have time for my family and friends.
I value those things more at this point.
I value my time playing computer games, so I sacrifice my sleep so I can do that. :)
Some people are like dogs: they want to be useful & helpful.
Some people are like cats: they want to sleep 16 hours a day & meow loudly at 3am.
I am the same and find that life is enough for me as it is. I'm also on the spectrum so it's easier to not burden myself unnecessarily.
My ADHD plays a huge part in the opposite direction. I have had hundreds of different hobbies or interests. Each hold my attention for a while and then I rotate to the next.
What I have learned to do is make hobbies or projects interrelated and each supports the next. CAD work supports my 3D printing, which supports all the rest, as an example. Tools purchased need to have multiple uses and other supplies the same. Essentially, I have constructed a huge feedback loop for my natural tendency to bounce around.
While that stuff keeps me busy, I am learning to simplify the rest of my life, so that is nice.
Wow. I think you just resolved some minor trauma for me. My mother used to berate (and sometimes beat) me for "never finishing things", as in I'd be really interested in something and then lost interest. It drove her up the wall, but since I was a kid all I heard was "stop being interested in everything".
I got dx'd with ADHD at 35. Slowly, and thanks to comments like yours, I'm making sense of my brain and learning to be kind to myself
Exactly! Compared to what neurotypical people are capable of, I truly do feel disabled in some ways. However, as long as I can continue to support myself and my partner until we both die, I’ll be good without all the extra bullshit and responsibilities.
They aren't thinking of it in terms of increasing responsibility. That is the cost of the decisions they are making, but it's not the benefit. Each of the things you mentioned have clear benefits (pay raise, biological drive, altruism). They are simply making decisions about when the benefits outweigh the costs.
I became a manager because I worked with shitty managers who sit on their ass and promote their friends. I wanted to change that.
I take on harder projects than my peers because I can handle it. It's easier for me to deal with the stress, than give it to a teammate who would absolutely struggle and lose 4 weekends trying to solve it.
I became a parent because I worked in the school system and taught kids without good families. I used to stay after school just to give these kids a positive influence before they get sent back to their shitty home.
I absolutely do not think about the stress of the added work, but instead focus on the results of my actions (or the results if I don't do it).
I became a parent because I worked in the school system and taught kids without good families. I used to stay after school just to give these kids a positive influence before they get sent back to their shitty home.
Don't take this as criticism, just trying to understand: What's the logic here? As a teacher without kids (for now), I feel like I'd have more to give to help my pupils if I don't have kids of my own.
We've been tricked into thinking either that hard work pays off or this specific hard work thing will pay off. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. But all the time it leads to more work.
My expert psychoanalysis of your entire personality based on a one sentence post is either you're happy where you are, or you're afraid of change.
i consider to some degree, actively avoiding responsibility as a form of responsibility.
For instance, if you know that you can't be a good parent, then don't. Some people just have different priorities, and if yours are simply enjoying life, then fuck it.
Perhaps they value different things in life. Everyone is not the same, what works for you won't work for everyone. There are people who enjoy having responsibility. Having children, being a manager and doing charity work feels fulfilling to them.
Because people find fulfillment in different things.
Hello, someone who went to a manager position here! I'm 100% with you, decreasing responsibility means decreasing stress and so is always a priority! However, there are a few reasons one might shoot for the moon anyway.
Ambition. This is the obvious one, some people just want more. More money, more power, more prestige. That is a valid reason to push further but isn't for everyone.
Empathy. Yep you read that right! Ambition isn't the only driving force to take on more responsibility. Empathy can lead people to see the ways to improve others' lives, workloads, and more!
Accidents. Especially with children but also in other areas, accidents happen and can often leave people with more on their shoulders than expected.
I personally am mostly number 2. I saw the terrible leadership that my team has had in the past and the ways I could assist my team to improve. I knew all the complaints and had ideas to fix them so I took the responsibility bullet so they don't have to.
I hope this helps you see into the mind of someone who accepts responsibility, even if it means more stress and less freedom!
i got a masters,tried to climb the corporate ladder only to realise,i prefer the quiet life,less responsibility and less stress.
i didn't want to be a corporate high flyer after trying to. some people will never know until they try and some couldn't get out because they went with the flow and got stuck.
This. I'm currently a CTO. Planning my next move to be a developer, not management of any kind.
Because for many people maturing into an adult means taking on and fulfilling responsibilities. It gives many people meaning and satisfaction, often not at the individual moment, but over the course of a life.
Others don't feel that way.
A third category think they don't feel that way, but realize too late that they do.
interesting how you only see the third category going one way
Interesting that it bothered you enough to comment on it.
I've worked in hospice care in the past. I'm sure there are people that regret taking on responsibility in their life, but the most desperate people I encountered were the ones that realized that they are at the end of their life and realized that they will never have the opportunity to "finally" take on challenges and/or responsibility.
Imagine a panic attack that doesn't go away because the time you have left is measured in days, weeks, or maybe months, you know it, and there is nothing you can do to address a lifetime of regret, which intensifies the panic.
Usually the best that can be done at that point is "comfort care," which is drugs. And I would just see them cry, fade, cry, fade, cry, fade, and then die alone. It's horrifying to see, and it sticks with you.
Life isn't a movie or game, and no one is the main character.
IDK why people become managers, either, when the pay often isn't reflected in the increased responsibility. Plenty of jobs I had, the managers got paid the same minimum wage as everyone below them, while having to do a lot more work. I have no problem with the responsibility, as long as I'm properly compensated for it.
Not too disagree with you, or argue, but in my field your experience is not how it is here. You have to go into management of you want to make more money, and while the work is different, I'm not sure it's harder
This is only true of "team lead" type managers.
Get more skills and experience. Get promoted. Produce more value. Get paid more. Repeat.
Some people become managers because they like having control over people.
And those are the people you need to avoid being managed by.
The ability to “strive” is a learned skill that needs to be honed over years. It’s not really natural to most people — it’s easy to fall into a low-energy state and want to stay there because it’s comfortable. It takes practice and energy putting yourself out there and putting an effort into making more of your life.
If you’re happy with who you are and what you’re doing, then I’m not going to neg on your life. But are you going to spend the next ~50 years just gliding along, and not creating or building any value for yourself in this world (and that doesn’t have to be monetary value — building a family, and building up your community through volunteer works build value as well)? When you’re in the twilight of your life, do you want to look back and find you did nothing of significance with your life?
Maybe that doesn’t bother you. That’s fine. Just so long as 15 years from now you’re not some bitter middle-aged person complaining about people in the upper-middle class who get to do things you don’t get to do and who have more money and nice things that you do.
But none of that would be for me. So I put in the work, learned how to strive for the life I wanted, and got a graduate degree, built a beautiful family, got that management job (and the pay that goes with it), and spend my spare time volunteering (currently) with three different organizations. It’s a busy life and take a lot of time and energy — but it allows me to have people around me who love me, with the money to do and own nice things together, and to give back to my community to make it a better place. And when my time eventually comes, I’ll have hopefully left this world a little better off for the effort.
There as a time when you were very young that tying your shoes was impossible for you. For a time, your parents tied your shoes for you. Then you learned how, with difficulty, to do it yourself. Within a short time you mastered it and you don't even think about it now. You simply benefit from having tied shoes without having to ask anyone. Somewhere out there is a person that doesn't know how to tie their own shoes asking why people learned to do so for themselves, where you have that answer for yourself.
Others around you see benefits to raising children, the challenge and pay of rising in job role, or the noble contribution of doing charity work bettering others/society. For you, you don't see any of the benefits to yourself that come from those thing. Yet those other people learned to tie their shoes themselves too. You are like them in that they had the desire to better themselves in that small way because you all saw a benefit.
It sounds like the question before you is to examine your life, decide if there is anything you want in it that you don't have, and work a path to getting that. The one further thing I would recommend is don't just look at your life as it is now at age 30. Imagine your life at 35,40, 50, 65, and 80. With the versions of yourself at those ages be satisfied with the person you are today with what you know and have? Will you, at some distant year, be sad that you passed on an opportunity to have something else in your life you don't have today? If so, its up to you, today, to make the choices that will eventually make you into the person you want to be for that distant age.
Only you can answer this question and there is no wrong answer as long as you are true to yourself and have properly explored yourself and the world to properly answer this question.
If those things don't make you happy then don't do them.
In short, because people have different values and are motivated by different things.
Doing something that aligns with your values can be deeply fulfilling! Faith, charity, community, financial independence, respect etc.
Note that there isn't anything objectively right or wrong about this, or the things that people value, it just is. You might value solitude and rest.
Head to personalvalu.es for examples of values.
@humbletightband essentially it's because more responsibility leads to more power.
Specifically, people are interested in having more power over outcomes eg avoiding hunger, discomfort, loneliness etc.
Edit: I don't mean this in a bad or selfish way, though reading back over it I can see how it could come across like that. I'm talking about having more agency and control over aspects of life for yourself and others.
That includes, say, helping with humanitarian causes.
I have to have a job, which means I have to work. If I have to work, I’d prefer it was challenging and stimulating. That doesn’t mean it’s good, but busy and challenged and better than bored and unstimulated for me personally.
Because you're smart.
Sincerely,
Overworked middle manager
Volunteering is incredibly rewarding, even if it adds to my responsibility. Time devoted to a hobby is incredibly rewarding....even if it takes my time.
The reward is worth the sacrifice.
Certainly better use of my time than sitting around watching tv
I used to avoid extra responsibilities, and I still don't have kids, and I don't do charity. In the past moving to stressful positions was financially motivated. But my current job as a patient advocate is extremely rewarding to me. It's the first time I felt I had a job that meant something and I am fulfilled by making impact in individual lives. I've had people call me a life-saver, and have had patients shed tears after I was able to help them. Sometimes my job is not so great, and some things are routine and go by thanklessly, but the moments I am able to be a difference motivates me.
This is the first job I've participated and engaged in more than just the basic requirements, because I see what I do and what my colleagues do as meaningful and valuable, beyond making a CEO their paycheck. I go as far in my job to actually reduce GDP I suppose, steering people towards options that are best for them, even if they don't generate direct profits for my company. I feel like a real person here, and that's why I take on more responsibilities. (it also will help me financially in the long run, but that is less of a primary factor for me now)
I don't want to be a manager, but did have lots of kids and went to school to get a 'real' job. I think to some extent people just do things because they need to be done - I wanted a house and family so easiest way to get that was to have kids and work. I like to eat good food, having money and a garden is the easiest way to get that. It's certainly not a power trip, as someone lower down implies. More like a form of greed, if you have to look at it in a negative way. I like having a full house.
Different concepts of self, maybe, learned from your childhood.
Perhaps you have a limited mindset: suppose you have a happy, productive day of work/effort, and at the end of the day you are tired; on the following day, do you need to rest and rejuvenate because you worked so hard the prior day, or do you work even harder because your efforts from the prior day give you momentum and confidence to keep going?
Another thing to consider is, where do you get your self validation? So, like, were you raised with an internal focus or an external focus? Do you give your best effort and attention working toward your own approval and satisfaction, or do you work toward the approval of others?
As a kid, was it instilled in you that you were inadequate, lacking, or behind your peers in some way? If so, I expect you will spend the rest of your life feeling that way. And when things happen that contradict that, like even when you donate great job on something, if that doesn't match watch was instilled in you, you experience cognitive dissonance, and your brain literally stops you from counting your successess and strengths, because it's uncomfortable to think of yourself as adequate and complete.
What people want in life often comes from what they experienced themselves previously. You mentioned charity. I've put 13 years of my life into being a scouts group leader, organizimg weekly meetups, many events and multiple scout camps a year. I'm very passionate about this, since I've got so much out of being a scout since I was 7, growing up with a community, that was meaningful and not harsh and punishing as school. I wanted tp give these experience back to the next scout generation. And during my time as scout group leader I could grew even more, making my own life better through helping others. Soon I will shift my focus away from the scouts (currently its too much together with work; also I want kids soon).
I'm not saying, that you need to do this. I just wanted to explain where my motivation comes from. I get a sense of fulfilment and I'm proud of what I've done and I'm proud of the kids, that I saw growing up and now being group leaders themselves.
Finding something, that you are passionate about is very important. It doesn't need to include external responsibilities. Taking responsibility for your own self, like putting in hard work to learn a new skill, can be as fulfilling as the above.
We don't do it for the purpose of increasing responsibility. I mean , I didn't, maybe other people do. I just really wanted a couple little mini monsters following me around.
When I was like 30, I was out hiking and I saw some guy with three little kids, the kids were hopping from rock to rock, and the littlest one ran up past the siblings to hold the dad's hand. It was super cute. My parents were kinda uninterested and afk, so I haven't seen a lot of examples of dads just having fun with their kids.
That little family was inspiring, in the sense that it opened my mind to a new way of thinking, but also in the sense of taking in breath, it felt like I had been holding my breath and finally stopped. I realized I didn't necessarily have to be like them, I could use their bad/mediocre parenting as a "what not to do" list, and still do some of the things that they did that were good. I could go hiking with my kids, I could teach them how to build a campsite out of nothing, or how to build a server, or how to put your thumb on the end of a house so it sprays really far.
Sure it's more responsibility but it's also really fun.
And, tbh, all the nice things in life are even nicer if you can share it with people. That goes double for kids, because they don't know how shitty the world is. You just gotta make sure they understand and appreciate the fun stuff and don't get spoiled.