this post was submitted on 20 Jul 2023
286 points (93.9% liked)

World News

38987 readers
2008 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News !news@lemmy.world

Politics !politics@lemmy.world

World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Street musicians singing Russian songs in the Ukrainian capital Kyiv could soon face problems. Likewise, bars and restaurants playing Russian background music may end up getting in trouble.

The reason is that Kyiv city council has issued a temporary ban on performing or showcasing Russian-language art and culture — such as books, music, plays and concerts — in public. This ban also encompasses cultural and educational programs. The restriction not only applies to works by Russian authors and creators, but to all cultural products publicly presented in or translated into Russian.

Ukrainian MPs said the move was designed to protect Ukraine from Russian influence. "Russia is the language of the aggressor and it has no place in the heart of our capital," said Vadym Vasylchuk, the deputy chairman of the Standing Committee on Education and Science, Youth and Sports. Mere symbolism?

The move is backed by Ukraine's Vidsich (Defense) movement, which began calling for a ban on the Russian language and Russian goods, films and music in 2014, following the annexation of Crimea. "A ban on Russian-language cultural products is necessary," Vidsich activist Kateryna Chepura told DW. "This is an additional lever for activists working to boycott everything Russian, so we can say: shut it down, remove Russian from public life."

The Kyiv city council ban, however, is temporary, lending it a symbolic quality only. A permanent, legally binding ban would require support from Ukrainian parliament, the Verkhovna Rada.

As a result, Chepura calls Kyiv's temporary ban "an ineffective instrument, because you cannot be held accountable for disregarding it." She regards it as a "moral factor encouraging people who do not want to continue tolerating Russian music on the streets or in theater."

In fact, certain Russian-language cultural products are already prohibited in Ukraine. The bans date back to September 2019, when the first restrictions were imposed in the region of Lviv. Subsequently, other cities like Ternopil and Zhytomyr in the Volhynia region, followed suit. Cause for controversy

Human rights activist Volodymyr Yavorskyy of the Ukrainian Center for Civil Liberties, however, said such bans are discriminatory and unconstitutional. "These are illegal decisions, because local authorities have no right to regulate such issues and impose such bans," Yavorskyy told DW. "That is why they have no legal consequences." The judiciary, he added, had already deemed such local bans illegal.

A person violating the Kyiv city council moratorium on Russian cultural products cannot be held accountable, Yaworskyy said. "These bans issued by local authorities are nothing but political gestures — only the Ukrainian parliament can turn such bans into law." Only then, he said, would they become legally binding and enforceable.

In June 2022, the Ukrainian parliament already banned publicly playing songs by Russian artists. The restriction does not, however, apply to Russian singers who condemn Russia's war against Ukraine. Recently, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy also signed a law banning the import and distribution of Russian books. It was passed by parliament last year.

Regardless of whether or not local bans are in place, playing Russian music in public is bound to cause controversy. Take, for instance, a recent disagreement between a 17-year-old busker and Ukrainian MP Natalya Pipa. She complained when the teenager performed songs by Russian rock legend Viktor Tsoi on the street in Lviv, who in return insulted the woman, saying he was allowed to play whatever music he liked. Later, however, the busker published a video in which he apologized to the lawmaker.

Another altercation occurred in the village of Pohreby, in the Kyiv region. There, a young woman was thrown out of a cafe for complaining that the establishment was playing a song by Russian pop singer Grigory Leps supporting Russia's war against Ukraine. Do not copy Russian aggression

Yevgenia Belorusets, a Ukrainian artist, translator and author who works in Ukrainian Russian and German, says the Russian-language ban is discriminatory. "These bans perpetuate the myth that Ukrainian culture is always being discriminated against," she told DW. "This then supposedly gives it the right to discriminate against other forms of cultural expression." Yevgenia Belorusets is seen looking into the camera

"Ukrainian-language culture knows too well how discrimination feels," she added. "It should not try to overcome this trauma by inflicting similar pain on others." The creator said Ukraine should not mirror Russian aggressors and refrain from "projecting Russia's aggressive intentions onto Ukraine's complex cultural situation."

Belorusets said language bans could divide Ukrainian society, warning that "it's getting harder and harder to talk about this in Ukraine, because doing so is immediately labeled as a hostile act." Ukraine's future as a democratic state, she said, depends on granting everyone their rights and accepting their own complicated past. "The challenge consists in accepting competing views within society."

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] AngrilyEatingMuffins@kbin.social 87 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (10 children)

Doesn’t like a third of the country normally speak Russian? This is fucked. No two ways about it.

What’s next, speaking the language will get you labeled a spy? This can only go bad places. What was a National conflict will become an ethnic one.

She regards it as a “moral factor encouraging people who do not want to continue tolerating Russian music on the streets or in theater.”

Very dangerous language

[–] mea_rah@lemmy.world 31 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I agree it's bad idea to do this, but it looks like most people didn't read the article past the headline and assume Kyiv is used as metonym for Ukraine. (In the same way as when Kremlin is used instead of russian government) Which is not the case here, it's literary just Kyiv city council doing this.

[–] Lily33@kbin.social 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

But Kyiv the city also has (had before the war) about a quarter of its population being Russian-speakers, so the point stands. That said, I don't see this trend reversing while the war's still ongoing.

[–] curiouscuriosity@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

When you say Russian speakers, does that include people that speak Russian and Ukrainian or only Russian? I know many Ukrainians do speak both.

[–] Lily33@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago

Indeed, most can speak both. I'm referring to first language.

[–] FiskFisk33@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It says russian culture, such as songs and books from russia. Not culture IN russian.

No she specifically mentions street performers.

That also wouldn’t be a whole lot better.

load more comments (8 replies)
[–] jesterraiin@lemmy.world 48 points 1 year ago (25 children)

It's horrible. Art is one of scarce things that builds bridges over intolerance and differences.

[–] kmkz_ninja@lemmy.world 41 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Unfortunately invasions make tolerance pretty difficult.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] cowpowered@lemm.ee 27 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

For context: The UK and US did not ban German classical music during WW1 and WW2, and works by Beethoven, Mozart, Wagner, Brahms etc were performed and broadcast on radio.

Unsurprisingly the Nazis did censor a lot of music. Don't be like the Nazis is the lesson, I guess.

[–] Heresy_generator@kbin.social 47 points 1 year ago (1 children)

For context, the US threw almost everyone of Japanese ancestry into camps in WW2 and banned Japanese-language assemblage, worshipping, cultural events, and recreation.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/107769900308000407

[–] cowpowered@lemm.ee 36 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah, and I think we can all agree that was a very bad thing.

[–] Heresy_generator@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sadly, the evidence would suggest that we can't all agree to that:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Defense_of_Internment

Around 2019, Malkin began to distance herself from conventional conservatism and instead publicly support members of the extreme right, including Nick Fuentes,[3][4][5] as well as other white nationalists, neo-Nazis, and Groypers, including Identity Evropa leader Patrick Casey.[3][5][6] In November 2019, she was dropped by conservative organization Young America's Foundation (YAF), citing her support for individuals associated with antisemitism and white nationalism.[5][7]

From the author’s Wikipedia page. I hope her opinion is not main stream by any means.

[–] mean_bean279@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Bit of bad news love… we locked up a FUCK LOAD of Japanese immigrants and descendants during WWII, and took their property.

[–] cowpowered@lemm.ee 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I did forget about that momentarily 🤦‍♂️. It was an injustice.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] hypelightfly@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago

While the US government didn't. The people did.

The coming of World War I brought with it a backlash against German culture in the United States. When the U.S. declared war on Germany in 1917, anti-German sentiment rose across the nation, and German American institutions came under attack. Some discrimination was hateful, but cosmetic: The names of schools, foods, streets, and towns, were often changed, and music written by Wagner and Mendelssohn was removed from concert programs and even weddings. Physical attacks, though rare, were more violent: German American businesses and homes were vandalized, and German Americans accused of being "pro-German" were tarred and feathered, and, in at least once instance, lynched.

https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials/immigration/german/shadows-of-war/

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] ryannathans@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Sorry not allowed peace, art and communication anymore. Got a probrem? Bombs only

load more comments (22 replies)
[–] xc2215x@lemmy.world 39 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I hate Putin but the language and the culture being banned is a bit much.

[–] okamiueru@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

I think it makes sense. It's unfortunate, but Russia isn't doing much in good faith, and it limits certain otherwise freedoms. Same with access to Internet. Trolls are everywhere in numbers. They play dirty in politics and are driving forces behind much of what I hate in the world, from the NRA og brexit. Anything that destabilises the west is in their playbook. Not getting to play, would be such a breath of fresh air.

[–] DrDeadCrash@programming.dev 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Eh, while the invasion is ongoing it makes sense.

[–] RootBeerGuy@ttrpg.network 6 points 1 year ago

So, you think this is going to be reversed after?

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] HeavenAndHell@lemmy.world 36 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is dumb. Nothing wrong with boycotting it, but banning it solves nothing because Kyiv is acting like being Russian inherently makes them anti-Ukraine and it doesn’t. Only the Russian state should be persecuted, not the people or culture.

[–] GONADS125@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I agree with you, but I think it's easier to see and say this when we are not over there living the hell they are. I do not agree with a ban like this at all. I think they end up being counterintuitive.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Gustephan@lemmy.world 32 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Wasn't "protecting Russian language and culture" one of Putlers first justifications for the invasion? Like, I think it's kinda fucked up to ban the language and culture, but then again my country has never been invaded by a neighboring war criminal who used "we're just protecting our language and culture in your land" so my opinion isn't nearly as valid as the opinion of people who are currently in that situation

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] luthis@lemmy.nz 25 points 1 year ago

Come on Ukraine, don't be a China.

[–] Matriks404@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago

I don't think there's anything wrong with boycotting Russian language and culture in Ukraine due to current situation, but banning it? That's just against the freedom of speech, and this should not be allowed in a country that wishes to be a western democracy and wants to join our multinational organizations.

Disclaimer: I might be slightly biased because I have been learning Russian for more than 3 years. But I also separate politics from language and culture.

[–] bossito@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is not a good news but it's also not so difficult to understand the viewpoint of some Ukrainians that can't stand any longer the language of the invader, that bombs them everynight, that destroyed entire cities, raped women and children, kidnapped them, created an ecocide at the former dam, and the list goes on and on and on.. Russian was widely spoken in Kyiv before the war, this is a direct consequence of all these horrors.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Someboynumber5reborn@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is fucked up even if temporary. I do understand why they did it, I mean if my country was being invaded I probably wouldn't want the language and culture of the invader on my doorstep, but this still is a violation of freedom of speech.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] drmoose@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

I speak Russian and generally think Russian is one of the most interesting languages in the world but the culture attached to it is so incredibly toxic. I think separating culture from the language itself is basically an impossible task. I don't disagree with this decision tbh.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] ahriboy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 1 year ago

Speaking Russian doesn't make you an asset of the enemy. We have a lot of Legion of Freedom personnel who are unable to speak Ukrainian.

[–] Willer@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

" a young woman was thrown out of a caffe by complaining that the establishment was playing music from a russian pop singer"

As a chad aux enthusiast i can only say deserved

[–] 6mementomori@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

hell naw. that's too far. don't drag the people into this again

load more comments
view more: next ›