this post was submitted on 22 Dec 2023
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Windows 10 end of life could prompt torrent of e-waste as 240 million devices set for scrapheap::As Windows 10 end of life approaches, analysts are concerned that millions of devices will be scrapped due to incompatibility

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[–] originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com 73 points 10 months ago (2 children)

of course no mention of upcycling these with linux and getting them into needy hands. with alll the solid state hardware now many of these machines are perfectly functional, and will be for some time. its the batteries that likely need a looking at

[–] maynarkh@feddit.nl 7 points 10 months ago (5 children)

No, personal computers can only ever work with Windows. I just love that the common thinking process just accepted that problems, especially IT problems, can only ever be solved by 5 gigacorps.

BTW a lot of these will not even be laptops, I imagine they won't even need much. If Windows was a proper system by the way, they could be still supplied with security updates by third parties.

Also, I've seen Rufus claiming to be able to remove the TPM requirement from the installer. I didn't test it though.

[–] BearOfaTime@lemm.ee 24 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Let's go back to 1995, you're a corporate IT manager or C-class executive , responsible for deploying desktops, laptops, to 10,000+ employees (I worked for or with several companies like this at the time).

You need directory services, email, app deployment. You also need common office apps, like word processing, spreadsheets, etc.

Your end users are finance folks, regulatory compliance teams (i.e. legal), marketing, etc, who've been working with systems that are purpose-built for their roles (mainframe/IBM As series for finance, print layout systems for marketing, etc), with not everyone really using email much.

Suddenly you have an opportunity to migrate everyone to a general purpose system that's pretty easy to understand, and many people already have some familiarity with. You can eliminate sending handbooks to everyone by building your own intranet which people can access with IE. Your HR systems (which are still on mainframes/AS-400) can now be accessed by IE from anywhere in the company, so time entry, vacation, benefits changes, etc, reduce time and paper consumption dramatically.

Theres a million reasons why companies embraced Windows back then. Standardized UI for everything massively improved support capability. Being able to take output from legacy systems and present it better either via IE or custom-built apps made for significant training reduction, and could even reduce password management difficulties, and increase password compliance/security for the legacy systems (I saw one custom app in 1996 that presaged SSO by managing logins to 11 backend systems).

There was nothing in the *Nix world at the time that could compete with the whole package that Windows/Exchange offered, for the user management and end-user ease-of-use. Especially since you could retain your legacy systems and use Windows as both Windows and as a terminal if needed, and provide app flexibility for end users.

Then there's the productivity side, there were already tons of Windows apps available, with many more on the way. And people were familiar with how to use them, because of a standard interface. Also, many people were using Windows at home or school, so we're familiar with it.

Just compare Word to Wordperfect at the time. I'm not sure WP was even a GUI yet (I forget when they added it). So legal folks were fast as hell with WP, but your average user wasn't, and it had a bit of a learning curve. Compare that to the menu-driven, WYSIWYG Word Perfect.

Now look at the SMB space, where money is even tighter. It's much easier to deploy and manage an exchange/windows setup for 50 users than what, setup a Unix system? I could teach someone to do day-to-day Exchange admin stuff in a few hours, because GUI is way easier than command line for people who are new/inexperienced, because it reveals the concepts/paradigms. And Exchange ran on fairly generic hardware. Again, they didn't have to buy something like an AS400.

Unix folks just didn't see what was coming for some reason. I remember Unix admins disparaging Windows as a "toy" in the early/mid 90's. Even today I couldn't imagine selling a Linux setup to most companies, as mature is it's gotten.

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[–] jsh@sh.itjust.works 51 points 10 months ago (3 children)

So what I'm hearing is, free Linux servers?

[–] cmbabul@lemmy.world 19 points 10 months ago

I’m about to buy an irresponsible about of equipment

[–] FunderPants@lemmy.ca 8 points 10 months ago

Right? That's what I heard.

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[–] AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space 49 points 10 months ago (2 children)

High-end corporate laptops from 5-10 years ago make excellent cheap and powerful Linux machines today (given a reconditioned battery, assuming you want to run them without mains, and a new SSD several times larger than the hard drive they came with). See all the sticker-festooned Thinkpads you see at conferences that spent the first few years of their lives handling executive email and PowerPoint presentations, now living their best lives.

[–] Odelay42@lemmy.world 7 points 10 months ago (2 children)

I've always wanted to do this.

What's a good source to buy them?

What models do you recommend?

[–] CosmicGiraffe@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I've always got them from eBay.

The T and X series are the high-end ones. Between those it mostly depends on what size of laptop you're looking for. Its worth checking a guide for how you replace the SSD/RAM/battery - some of the newer ones have these soldered in place, which means you're stuck with whatever it originally came with.

Personally, I think the sweet spot is around 4 years old. By that point they're pretty cheap (maybe 10% of the original RRP), and going for older ones doesn't save you much more money. I recently got an X390 and it's doing everything I need from a laptop

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[–] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 45 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Positive take: Lots of great Linux laptops on their way to eBay.

[–] pastermil@sh.itjust.works 13 points 10 months ago

cheap Linux laptop too!

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[–] sturmblast@lemmy.world 32 points 10 months ago (8 children)

Windows 10 should not require such a short life time. 11 isnt much different other than the security\TPM chip shit. And 11 is fucking terrible UX

[–] jsh@sh.itjust.works 18 points 10 months ago (3 children)

I like that it's completely arbitrary and you can force windows 11 to install on unsupported hardware.

[–] sturmblast@lemmy.world 19 points 10 months ago

Also true.. Windows 10 EOL is just planned obsolensence

[–] CmdrShepard42@lemm.ee 12 points 10 months ago (2 children)

In one sense, I'm glad they put this stupid barrier up so that I don't have to keep deleting the forced upgrade as part of regular Windows Updates like I did with Win10, but on the other hand it's bullshit that they're creating so much waste for no other reason than personal profit for their company.

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[–] ichbinjasokreativ@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

You just need to set a couple of registry bypasses and you can upgrade any Computer to Windows 11. Downside is that some security features won't work, but its not a big deal for consumers.

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[–] newcockroach@lemmy.world 29 points 10 months ago (6 children)

Where can i get this waste .my linux pengiun will love it🤩.but it saddens me that people relay on windows so much.

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[–] pixelscience@sh.itjust.works 26 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

All these machines will continue to run, so if they're not going to upgrade to win 11 and buy a new machine then what does it matter. They'll just use a win 10 machine with no updates forever. Security concerns aside obviously.

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[–] reddig33@lemmy.world 26 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Google should be pushing ChromeOS towards people and businesses with this kind of hardware. It’s a perfect way to capture market share from Microsoft.

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[–] wabafee@lemmy.world 25 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

This will be interesting, maybe this will push for huge adoption for linux. This could also mean a lot of old hardware that are still very capable goes to 2nd hand market in turn lowering prices for pc. Or nothing happens and most of the people will be in a compromise OS for years similar to what happen with windows xp debacle. There also another situation where Microsoft does backtrack on its decision and the same status quo would remain for years to come.

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[–] LemmyIsFantastic@lemmy.world 13 points 10 months ago (11 children)

It's 8 years old. FFS install Linux and have a little server or some shit if you really can't be bothered to upgrade.

[–] cyberpunk007@lemmy.world 14 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Ok so if you built a computer in like 2019 or 2020 it's only 4-5 years old. This was before windows 11 came out. 4-5 years is not that old for a computer, especially if you built a good one.

[–] Corgana@startrek.website 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

This is what happened to me, a really high end PC built in 2018 and I couldn't even upgrade because of the TPM stuff! Decided to try out Zorin and have been pleasantly surprised.

[–] KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml 4 points 10 months ago

9 times out of 10 you can turn TPM on on these machines, and even then, i'm told "Can't upgrade to Windows 11."

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[–] Kethal@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago

Haha, "bothered to upgrade". What upgrade?

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[–] HenriVolney@sh.itjust.works 11 points 10 months ago

Big corporations, screwing the environment, one greedy policy after the other

[–] megane_kun@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (5 children)

I've kept a Windows 10 install on a separate SSD for the programs that stubbornly refuse to run on Linux (games, in my case). However, I won't be upgrading that to Windows 11. I'll just reclaim that SSD for other purposes and use Linux exclusively.

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[–] Blackmist 10 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Incompatibility with what? Things are only just starting to be incompatible with Windows 7. I've still got customers running variants of Windows XP.

And Windows 11 doesn't really contain much that won't work on 10.

I reckon the TPM and secure boot requirements will eventually be dropped. They're the Kinect of Windows 11.

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago (2 children)

I'm still not even sure why they decided to require TPM anyways. But yeah my computer is among the many that can't upgrade until that's gone. I guess it's either that or I learn a lot more about Linux...

[–] jdaxe@infosec.pub 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

At least if you switch to Linux there's no shortage of people on the fediverse willing to answer questions.

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[–] 01189998819991197253@infosec.pub 9 points 10 months ago (4 children)

I just helped a friend who is still on Windows 7. I showed him my Linux boxes. Even offered him one for free. "but I can't live without this minesweeper". Seriously. I showed him minesweeper on one of the Linux boxes. "it's not the same one, I have a high score". Thankfully, this isn't a laptop, because he would not be permitted to connect to my wifi. Those that scrap their old devices for Win11 will either be businesses/corporations that have no other choice or slightly more advanced users that understand the benefits of active support. The general populace will likely keep their Win10 (or 7) computers until they have to upgrade the hardware, and they'll likely be super happy that they don't have to deal with the "annoying windows update that restarts [their] computer". To be fair, forced reboots is an annoying feature.

[–] zogreface@lemmy.world 7 points 10 months ago (1 children)

WINE will run minesweeper. He can even bring over his highscores file.

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[–] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Given how long it took the general populace to let go of Windows XP, I predict a pretty similar turn of events (or rather lack thereof) with Win10. By and large everyone's grandma and parents and auntie will just keep on using their same old computer as it is, possibly eventually turning into a petri dish for every exploit and piece of malware in the known universe in the process.

The majority of casual home users will throw away their computer and buy a new one only if it stops working or possibly if some new piece of software or more likely some future web site won't work with it. Otherwise, to most non-nerd users it's just an appliance.

Office and corporate deployments are another thing, but OS end-of-life situations are not new to any of those guys.

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[–] laverabe@lemmy.world 7 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Great time to buy a cheap used PC for linux

[–] cyberpunk007@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Why cheap, why separate? Just use your current one and slap in another disk. I've been doing it for decades. Many games run surprisingly well in Linux, sometimes even better than windows

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[–] notannpc@lemmy.world 7 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

How many non-tech people actually know about this? And how many of that small percentage are actually going to toss their computer as a result of it?

Because for the average computer user, they will never wonder why there are no more updates. And as long as their computer still browses the internet they don’t care even if you notify them.

Microsoft tried for years to get people off of fucking internet explorer and barely succeeded.

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[–] Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

10 has only been superseded quite recently, 2025 seems like a very short deadline.

My computer more than meets the minimum spec for 11, and it's a free upgrade, so I'm not too worried, but it's still a surprise.

[–] Cornelius_Wangenheim@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

10 years of support from release is Microsoft's standard. The very first version of W10 was 1507.

[–] JustARegularNerd@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago

True, but that 10 years is irrelevant when you consider the other factors at play here, such as the enforced minimum requirements for Windows 11 and the relatively short time for users to migrate, especially compared to previously with Microsoft. Windows 10 came out in 2015, and users had until 2023 (8 years) to migrate from Windows 8, and until 2019 (4 years) to migrate from Windows 7.

[–] KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml 6 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I can't upgrade to W11, I can't afford nor am I ready to upgrade my gaming PC, its likely I'll be moving to Linux or keeping to use W10 w/o support.

Microsoft really did no favors with limiting official W11 support. Its not just TPM.

[–] Maragato@eslemmy.es 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Siempre esta la opcion de usar Linux y mantener activos esos equipos

[–] Aggravationstation@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago (8 children)

Another way to say this is the master race are about to upgrade their hardware

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[–] wrott@lemmy.ml 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I don't know how to install Windows 11 and I'm totally ok with it. I've been on linux for about 10 years.

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