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Trump claiming credit for ceasefire and then destroying the region was always Bibi's plan. The propalestine protestors were against the administration for refusing to acknowledge that the israeli's were not negotiating in good faith. Had they played hard ball things might have been different.
Oh look at that, exactly what literally every sane person predicted would happen is happening.
Yep all those idiot protest voters getting exactly what trump said he would do.
Bullshit. I voted against my conscience because I knew orange would harm people I love. It wasn’t enough.
Dems didn’t offer anything compelling because they are a failed party that can only drive votes with threats of even worse. It’s pretty easy to not fund a genocide and lie and say it isn’t happening when it clearly is. Dems can blame only themselves for poor turnout.
...I voted against my conscience because I knew orange would harm people I love. It wasn’t enough.
correct! because something like ~~30~~ 90 million Americans didn't vote because they were told:
what's worse is that they believed the lies! so your vote lost impact because they couldn't be bothered to vote.
Dems didn’t offer anything compelling because they are a failed party that can only drive votes with threats of even worse.
the threats didn't come from the dems. they came from the magats. and guess what...they were credible threats! I guess those ~~30~~ 90 million voters wished they had got off their fat asses and voted now.
It’s pretty easy to not fund a genocide and lie and say it isn’t happening when it clearly is. Dems can blame only themselves for poor turnout.
you make it sound easy but agreements between nations are anything but that. last time I checked both the dems and repubs were running the government..how convenient of you to forget that.
yeah when the choice is between horrible and double super extra horrible, it’s hard to get really motivated to vote for horrible….
it’s pretty much the genocide version of the trolly problem. palestine genocide is on one track, on the other track, there’s the palestinian genocide, trans genocide, hispanic genocide, and entire planet ecocide…
the choice is obvious but not particularly inspiring… at least under harris there was some hope of lobbying her to stop… protest at the whitehouse now and trump will try to have you shot… hopefully they refuse next time.
Yeah, I voted blue, but I knew this was going to happen regardless of who won.
That’s why politics for ordinary people needs to go way beyond voting.
At least with the blue team they're less likely to bend to protests...red team will just send the boots to step directly on you.
I would be curious to see the numbers but I don't think the pro Palestine protest voters cost the Democrats the election. It definitely didn't help, but the Dems shat the bed in way more ways than just the Palestine situation.
If they did, then all the neolibs were wrong that voters don't care about Palestine...
Which logically means the party needs to move to the left at least enough so that genocide isn't acceptable.
Instead, they act like fucking trump supporters and brag that a genocide is still happening.
There's zero logic or empathy with them, which is why some people call them "blue maga".
They're the ones that didn't stop watching CNN even after the new buyers blatantly and publicly said their goal was to become the fox news if he left.
You are aware that people can hold two beliefs at once, right?
So, not voting and encouraging others not to vote because "blue MAGA" is actively helping the people who are currently enacting genocide+.
See, this is where communication always breaks down...
If a progressive is politically active right now it's safe to assume that they held their nose and voted D.
Which I've done just like I've always done.
But we tried to warn people trump was going to win if Dems kept moving right...
Dems kept moving right, and we were right. Then when we try to talk about how to win next time and how to gain back all the votes moving right cost us...
We get people trying to say we're the problem because we want to fucking win.
So, not voting and encouraging others not to vote because “blue MAGA” is actively helping the people who are currently enacting genocide+.
I got a big post history, plenty of opportunities for you to find a single comment where I've ever advocated for not voting for the least evil candidate in the general.
But if you got a little faith you can take my word it's not in here.
Inside our current system, the most powerful act a citizen can perform is voting.
That "inside" is doing increasingly heavy lifting these days. Seems to me that increasingly the only successful change comes from working outside the system.
Well many folks stayed home, and there's no number for that (by intention...staying home is staying home) so it would be hard to quantify.
But apathy in the face of a trump second term is worth discussing, given what was common knowledge about him by then
Yo can do some demographic analysis on it and that points to: white suburban men didn't shou up to vote.
That's true but you can't attribute exactly why, which was my point.
You can make some correlations about identifying key issues to a given group, but you can't guarantee their absence wasn't just due to either not being able to vote due to work or some other legitimate limitation on their ability, or just being a shitty lazy citizen, or protest absence
I think the 2024 election cycle failure falls almost exclusively on the shoulders of the Democrats.
Yeah Trump and his bullshit obviously played a part in where we ended up, but I genuinely believe that it more so came down to how the Democrats handled things in the years leading up to and during the election. I know people want to shift blame and point fingers. You could even make the argument that I'm doing that right now, but the data says otherwise.
It's not like Trump is some generally beloved figure that was already super popular. No he's highly controversial. Many old school Republicans and conservatives despise the guy.
So how does someone that nobody on the left likes and significant chunks on the right also aren't a fan of end up in the office again?
At some point the democratic party need to actually reflect on where they went wrong instead of just pointing fingers and trying to shift blame.
At the end of the day it's the job of the party to earn the votes of the people. They clearly didn't earn enough votes.
Blue lost ground to red in every single state. That type of thing doesn't just happen outta nowhere.
I think the 2024 election cycle failure falls almost exclusively on the shoulders of the Democrats.
You make some valid points, certainly. But what people are failing to recognize is none of that matters now.
We had one day, or one vote to stop this tidal wave of evil and we did not do it. Did the DNC fail to appear on a sports talk show, or drive a garbage truck around? Did they not mobilize a nationwide caucus to choose the best candidate from every single human alive today with just four months to go? Yeah, i guess, whatever - it doesn’t matter.
People who refused to stop trump because of Palestine helped ensure that situation would get 100x worse. And they were complete ignorant assholes about it. Dog forbid they learn anything from this.
Pro-Palestine protest votes didn't cost the Dems the election, but that a single group was not the deciding factor in a contest does not absolve them of responsibility. IE single-issue pro-Israel voters probably were not the reason for Trump's victory, but they still deserve a portion of the blame in voting for Trump.
And many of these selfsame pro-Palestine protest vote types are continuing their dumbass games even as Trump greenlights fascism both at home and abroad - like everyone fucking told them he would.
In general, let’s gently redirect anger away from protest voters.
First, I haven’t seen any evidence suggesting that the volume of protest votes would have impacted the Electoral College. Harris would have likely won Michigan, but that seems to be the extent of what would have happened if all protest votes had flipped to blue. (Please feel free to correct me with evidence if this is inaccurate.)
Second, you’re directing your frustration at the wrong group. The Democratic Party ran a campaign that was basically center right and fostered mass apathy at the polls. That’s the real issue. You can continue to direct anger at non-voters, but all this infighting does little to hold the Democratic Party accountable for running a campaign that encouraged people to literally stay home.
Yes, keep blaming the voters and not the democratic party and candidate who repeatedly refused to give them a reason to vote for them. Blaming the voters will definitely win us the next election.
Fuck that. No more being conciliatory, non-voters need to be ashamed of themselves. Shame has its place. Every non-voter knew about Project 2025, and then made the clear-eyed, full-chested decision to be complicit with every single consequence of a Trump victory. They need to be humbled, to feel deep shame, to be wracked with literally physically painful guilt, and to change their ways. If you're a non-voter you can work your fucking ass off for absolution, throw 110% into volunteering and activism to undo some of the mischief and horror Trump is working on vulnerable people, or you can go straight to Hell. No mercy for collaborators or quislings.
refused to give them a reason to vote for them
If stopping fascism isn't enough of a reason for you to vote Dems, that's a you problem and not a them problem.
If stopping fascism isn’t enough of a reason for you to vote Dems, that’s a you problem and not a them problem
If stopping fascism wasn't enough of a reason for Biden and Kamala to stop supporting a genocide...
Maybe they weren't the right candidates?
I don't get why so many people think voters always have to adapt their values to an existing politician, rather than getting a politician who agrees with voters....
Like, how fucking evil would someone have to be to risk trump taking over America rather than not supporting a genocide?
Take Biden and Kamala's name off it, and just how the fuck can someone say that hypothetical person would be a good president?
Wow if only there were something the candidate could have done to attract those voters. Guess we'll never know.
Hey Kamala, just say Genocide bad ... just once, you don't even need to action it, we all know politicians lie as easily as breath. Just once and you make history.
The walking special K ad throwing salutes is the result of protest votes not the continuing genocide. Palestine would burn under either administration.
Netanyahu wanted Trump to win, that should tell you ALL you needed to know
Yet Biden continued to put Israel over America...
And Kamala pledged to be the same as Biden.
So why aren't you blaming them for continuing to support a genocide even though literally every poll said it was going to get trump elected?