this post was submitted on 09 Dec 2024
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China’s ‘explosive’ ironmaking breakthrough achieves 3,600-fold speed boost (www.scmp.com)
submitted 2 weeks ago by yogthos@lemmy.ml to c/technology@hexbear.net
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[–] context@hexbear.net 66 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

very interesting

The method involves injecting finely ground iron ore powder into an extremely hot furnace... The result is a display of bright red, glowing liquid iron droplets that rain down and collect at the bottom of the furnace... Known as flash ironmaking... The new method also works exceptionally well for low or medium-yield ores that are abundant in China... the new technology could improve the energy use efficiency of China’s steel industry by more than one-third. As it eliminates the need for coal entirely, it would also enable the steel industry to achieve the coveted goal of “near-zero carbon dioxide emissions”

certainly sounds promising

[–] quarrk@hexbear.net 18 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Carbon neutral steel would be incredible for building sustainable cities.

[–] infuziSporg@hexbear.net 9 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Medium-hot take: sustainable cities really wouldn't need that much steel at all. The optimal height for residential buildings is about how many stories you can climb without being winded, and you can do this with timber and brick.

Cities will never be sustainable if they replicate the paradigm of enabling each individual's presumed desire to accumulate personal or private property to fill every need. Switching to universal access to everything, rather than ownership, is the biggest step. Once you do that, dwellings don't need to be as big, yards can be pooled together, there will be a shorter distance to everything, and production requirements for virtually everything will dramatically drop.

You can have a sophisticated and sustainable city with mostly 1700s-level technology.

[–] BashfulBob@hexbear.net 56 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

I do so love to hear about "cheap Chinese steel" coming out of the mouths of know-nothing liberals and the haters running PR in American metallurgical industries.

The idea that a foreign could have figured out how to do something cheaper, faster, and better than an American is so alien and incomprehensible to the western brainpan.

[–] Acute_Engles@hexbear.net 26 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

To be fair, my buddy is a steel fabricator and says there is a marked difference in quality. I personally chalk that up to China sending their bad stuff and keeping the good shit

[–] miz@hexbear.net 23 points 2 weeks ago

farmers do this, I have never had better produce or food than when I'm eating near where stuff is grown

[–] Crucible@hexbear.net 22 points 2 weeks ago

The Ea-Nasir school of selling metal: the good stuff goes to the state, sell the cheap shit to the private collectors, laugh when the latter get what they paid for

[–] ZeroHora@lemmy.ml 12 points 2 weeks ago

I live in a region in Brazil known for the steel industry, and when I asked people who work in the industry or working with industries that consume the steel, they said that the Chinese stainless steel in particular is inferior.

[–] GrouchyGrouse@hexbear.net 22 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

It is true that Chinese steel was inferior at one point but just like cheap Chinese goods of yesteryear the modern stuff is on par with western products because that's what they had to do to appeal to western consumers and manufacturers. Like damn I guess the market decided but since it's the Chinese doing it they can't believe it.

[–] BashfulBob@hexbear.net 11 points 2 weeks ago

the modern stuff is on par with western products because that's what they had to do to appeal to western consumers and manufacturers

It's what they had to do to appeal to Chinese customers and manufacturers. China is eclipsing Western consumer markets as fast as they're manufacturing outlets.

[–] miz@hexbear.net 47 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

unlimited Sputnik Moments on the western bourgeoisie

[–] alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml 22 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

For a continuous process, what difference is there if it takes 3 seconds or 3 days?

The energy saving and ability to use lower grade ores seems important though.

[–] neo@hexbear.net 27 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I think the energy-saving production is the real benefit, like you said.

According to calculations by Zhang and his colleagues, the new technology could improve the energy use efficiency of China’s steel industry by more than one-third. As it eliminates the need for coal entirely, it would also enable the steel industry to achieve the coveted goal of “near-zero carbon dioxide emissions”, Zhang’s team added.

Obviously it remains to be seen if this pans out. "Could" and "does" are different things, after all. I could just as well imagine every efficiency gain being wiped out by the Jevons effect.

[–] Sodium_nitride@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 2 weeks ago

Given the large share of chinese steel consumption being in construction and infrastructure, we don't need to worry too much about the jevon's effect. Once the country fully develops, steel demand will naturally be cut.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 18 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

The answer is obviously volume. If the process takes 3 seconds as opposed to 3 days then you can obviously have much higher throughput.

[–] alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

It's a continuous process, think of a conveyor belt. If the conveyor belt is 3 feet long or 3 miles long, the rate you can put things on it is the same.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 13 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Now imagine making the conveyor belt wider.

[–] alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

Yes, that has nothing to do with the time the items have to sit on the conveyerbelt. This is a process that takes 3600x less time, not one with 3600x more throughput.

If they put 1 ton of iron ore in the furnace over a period of 1 hour, even if the iron is at the bottom of the furnace within seconds instead of hours, it doesn't enable them to add iron ore at a faster rate.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Your made up scenario has absolutely nothing to do with how the process actually works though. You literally just made a straw man here. The reality is that the iron has to sit in the furnace for less time, and that means you can put more iron through the furnace of a particular size than you could otherwise. This really shouldn't be a hard concept to grasp, yet here we are.

[–] alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Oh so it does have a higher throughput too.

You could have just said that.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 14 points 2 weeks ago

That is literally what I said in my first reply. 🤷

[–] Tomorrow_Farewell@hexbear.net 5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

If they put 1 ton of iron ore in the furnace over a period of 1 hour, even if the iron is at the bottom of the furnace within seconds instead of hours, it doesn't enable them to add iron ore at a faster rate

Cool. So, now they get to put several times more of the iron. I wonder if your argument is going to be 'but they will hit another bottleneck, then'.

[–] bennieandthez@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

you just have to imagine that everything is immutable to dismiss this lol

[–] bennieandthez@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 2 weeks ago

a development of this magnitude will of course change how the production process is done, you don't harvest 10000acres of land with a 3 row combine.

[–] Andrzej3K@hexbear.net 21 points 2 weeks ago

China playing modded Minecraft while we're stuck on vanilla smdh

[–] CliffordBigRedDog@hexbear.net 9 points 2 weeks ago

Glorious Zhonghua Steel folded 3600 times

[–] carpoftruth@hexbear.net 9 points 2 weeks ago

Grinding anything super fine is very energy intensive. It isn't clear from the article if the steelmaking improvements also include accounting for the additional grinding of iron ore on the way in. If it does, awesome, if not, that is a very big cost to ignore.

[–] Evilphd666@hexbear.net 7 points 2 weeks ago

Sounds like a thermite reaction.