this post was submitted on 24 Jun 2023
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[–] JerkyIsSuperior@lemmy.world 51 points 1 year ago (3 children)

"Mercenaries and auxiliaries are useless and dangerous; and if one holds his state based on these arms, he will stand neither firm nor safe."

Niccolo Machiavelli - The Prince

[–] zeppo@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

"Windows are dangerous. Also, radioactive umbrellas" - zeppo, a Lemmy Member

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[–] downpunxx@lemmy.world 47 points 1 year ago (7 children)

The Wagnerites also seized the buildings of the head office of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the FSB department, the administration of #Rostov and one of the police departments, according to local channels. Nobody in the city understands what's going on.

https://press.coop/@nexta_tv/110596856860216270

[–] andobando@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

Like watching Cobra attack the Decepticons.

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[–] lewis6991@lemmy.world 40 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is not a "war", it is a "special military operation".

This is not a "coup", it is a "march for justice".

[–] sudneo@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

Everyone tries to control the narrative, this is completely normal. Anti-terrorist operation, peacekeeping mission, special military operation, march for X. I don't remember someone who just said "yep, we are invading X".

In this case both Prigozhin and Putin (or the establishment) are trying to control the narrative to gather support from "patriots". Saying you are making a coup sounds antigonizing, while saying you are marching for justice, because it's the government who has betrayed the people does not.

[–] SquishyPandaDev@yiffit.net 36 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Holly shit this has been picked up by the BBC.

Remember, it doesn't matter if they succeed or not. The fact it has happened will terrify Putin.

[–] Arbiter@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I feel like this might be on behalf of Putin.

Wagner has been pretty careful to call out everyone but Putin.

Feels like setting the stage for a claim that the war was orchestrated by rogue elements in the Russian military, giving an out to tuck tail and run and move toward easing sanctions.

[–] sudneo@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Judging from the address to the nation, this doesn't seem the case now.

The situation is still very confused.

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[–] Ertebolle@kbin.social 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Nah, this feels more like an "evil counsellors" situation - you don't want to take on the king directly, so you instead give him an out by saying that he's OK but he's been given bad advice. Which also means if you do take over you can keep him around as a figurehead who now listens to better advisers like yourself.

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[–] DrElementary@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is what I'm worried about. I hope they all tear themselves to pieces, but if Putin gets out scot free, I'll be disappointed

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[–] i_simp_4_tedcruz@lemmy.world 28 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I would like to submit "Putin panics and nukes his own people to stop the advance" for my Bingo card.

[–] jcit878@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

the latest resolution from NATO didnt say Russia cant nuke itself...

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[–] easeKItMAn@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago (2 children)
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[–] lycanrising@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago (11 children)

my mind is so blown. i didn’t have wagner turning against russia on my bingo card

[–] HerrLewakaas@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I mean Prigozin has been advertising his eventual turning against Putin for a while, but I didn't think it would happen as a full on military coup

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[–] GONADS125@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I welcome russian infighting. Hope it makes it easier for Ukraine to retake Crimea.

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[–] innkeeper@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago

Ukrainian army called ...they need fresh supplies of popcorn...

[–] assassinatedbyCIA@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago (3 children)

More evidence as to why you don’t hire mercenaries. They are only loyal to the money. I hope the US is watching with their love of PMC’s.

[–] Double_A@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Especially if you send the mercenaries on a nonsense mission to die a pointless death...

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[–] wheresyourshoe@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Things are escalating quickly in Russia.

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[–] political_avacado@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

The Ukraine counter-offensive sure is effective.

[–] Antik@lemmy.ml 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Holy shit.

Things are getting real real.

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[–] dangblingus@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

25,000 troops marching on Moscow. How many does the Kremlin have not already in Ukraine?

[–] Thepinyaroma@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

How many do they have not in Ukraine... Who are also willing to kill fellow Russians? If the average Russian military sentiment is, "Eh, let them through" this could be huge.

Plus a lot of the "Royal Guard" may be well-connected rich kids who are even less inclined to fight.

Way too soon to know for sure, but. 🍿

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[–] Yoz@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Can someone please explain what's going on ? I am out of the loop. I know Wagner was fighting for Russia but what happened now?

[–] certain_people@lemmy.world 34 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Everyone in Wagner was about to be conscripted into the regular Russian Army as the latest in an ongoing power struggle between Wagner's boss and the Russian MoD. So to avoid losing his private army, the boss has stepped up the power struggle to an attempted coup, basically.

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[–] UniquesNotUseful@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The head of Wagner was unhappy with Russian military leaders and thought he'd take matters into his own hands as Putin was going to support him. Putin did not. Now there are 10,000 men heading to Moscow.

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[–] SpacemanZ@kbin.social 13 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Wagner switching sides was not on my bingo card

[–] Zamboniman@lemmy.ca 28 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

They didn't switch sides. They created a third side. A Mêlée à Trois.

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[–] HexesofVexes@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

This became a possibility the moment Prigo started making threats towards government officials. As soon as that happened, and Russia did not recall and disband the group, a rebellion became an eventuality (what mercenary is going to accept execution from a state he is propping up).

I doubt it'll be successful, but it is a huge blow to Russia.

[–] andrei_chiffa@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Generally, I don't like to gloat, but I did call that one ~ June 5th over on Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/france/comments/140qkwu/destructions_incursions_%C3%A9vacuations_dans_la/jmyndp3/?context=3; in French because it was on r/France).

It actually is much worse than it seems - I did a write up over on Mastodon to explain why and how (https://mastodon.social/@andrei_chiffa/110599724720727202). The TLDR is that cities taken by Wagner mercs will be hard to retake without leveling, all internal protection troops are either tied or were lost in Ukraine, and mercs themselves have nothing to loose and all the revenge to take.

[–] YuYuHunter@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

Tu avais raison.

It's very strange how things are going right now. The fact that they are quite effortlessly moving hundreds of kilometers through Russian territory is quite telling.

[–] ghostnotes@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

If Kiev has been saving something up for a special occasion, this occasion is starting to look pretty special.

[–] elihu@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

I think this is a good time to continue what they've been doing, interfering with Russian logistics and pressing forward on the front lines.

They could make an attack on Russian territory (e.g. drone strikes against airbases, oilfields, bridges, or other suitable targets), but right now might be the right time to hold off on anything that might distract Russia and Wagner from fighting with each other. Nothing unifies squabbling factions quite like a serious external threat.

I wouldn't be surprised, though, if Ukraine ops to antagonize Russia as much as they can, while leaving Wagner mostly alone. That would also be a sensible strategy.

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[–] Nerrad@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I for one welcome their new Military overlords.

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[–] YuYuHunter@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

If they would merely keep Rostov, a city with one million citizens, this would already be an enormous problem for Russia. But the Wagner group is going all-out, and I strongly doubt whether they'll be able to oust the Russian government.

[–] DAC_Protogen@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

Popcorn material.

[–] tallwookie@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (4 children)

lol he switched sides? ah, classic.

Russia/Putin is boned, Wagner is all they really had left for non-shite fighting capacity

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