this post was submitted on 06 Jul 2024
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[–] Infamousblt@hexbear.net 61 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Accessibility options are the same as the KKK, apparently

[–] BurgerPunk@hexbear.net 12 points 4 months ago (1 children)

freeze-gamer are something else. No clue where that analogy is going

[–] NewDark@hexbear.net 8 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I think accessibility options are a dog whistle for communism like how he's describing right wing fascist symbolism

[–] BurgerPunk@hexbear.net 7 points 4 months ago

Oh okay. Its funny how the damgerous dog whistles for communism are objectively good things that increase how many peoole can enjoy things

[–] NakariLexfortaine@lemm.ee 46 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Can we just go back to when they would admit they're whiny babies with poor impulse control who have to use the easier options because they're there?

I miss those days. It was still bullshit drivel from the spawn of Golgotha, but at least it was upfront.

[–] BodyBySisyphus@hexbear.net 46 points 4 months ago (1 children)

"Given the chance, gamers will optimize all the fun out of a game"

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[–] Nachorella@lemmy.sdf.org 30 points 4 months ago

yeah, no one says Doom is easy because it has an easy mode. You can still brag about beating it on nightmare difficulty.

[–] SorosFootSoldier@hexbear.net 43 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I wonder if the guy behind dark souls feels some regret spawning an entire generation of G*mers insufferable about difficulty in their games.

[–] radiofreeval@hexbear.net 22 points 4 months ago (3 children)

I doubt it, the way any fromsoft game is made more or less prevents the addition of an easy mode because everything is carefully balanced and tuned around the current difficulty.

[–] Nachorella@lemmy.sdf.org 25 points 4 months ago (10 children)

That's just nonsense, though. Nothing about how the game is made prevents modifying the difficulty. There are mods that make the game easier, there's nothing inherent to any fromsoft game that prevents the addition of an easy mode.

It doesn't matter how it's "balanced" because it's a purely subjective thing, everyone has different abilities and the difficulty can never be perfectly tuned around each individual.

[–] radiofreeval@hexbear.net 10 points 4 months ago (2 children)

It would screw up a lot of gameplay and make it less rewarding. Take it from Myazaki: "Had we taken that approach, I don’t think the game would have done what it did, because the sense of achievement that players gain from overcoming these hurdles is such a fundamental part of the experience. Turning down difficulty would strip the game of that joy, which, in my eyes, would break the game itself." Your right that it's physically possible, but that defeats the point of the game.

[–] Nachorella@lemmy.sdf.org 14 points 4 months ago (1 children)

It wouldn't screw up the gameplay. It might make it less rewarding, but to who? The people who choose to play on an easier difficulty because of their abilities? Probably not.

[–] radiofreeval@hexbear.net 7 points 4 months ago (16 children)

If the point of a game is to be difficult and require the player to push outside of their comfort zone and outside of their abilities then what's the point of making it easier. The nice part about not having a difficulty slider is that there's no button to make a fight easier, you need to work to it. Difficulty settings are good for the majority of games, but most from games benefit off forcing you to suffer.

[–] Frank@hexbear.net 7 points 4 months ago (3 children)

The way that this discussion always comes down to souls games, and they always get brought up in discussions about difficult and acessibility, highlights exactly what you're talking about. You're supposed to lose a whole lot of times before you win, and I think a lot of people who use souls games as an example of an "unfair" game either don't understand that or refuse to understand that.

Plus, like. Summoning. You can summon two players to back you up. You might still die a lot, but if you're able to use the game inputs, the controller, you can most likely beat the game with allies to help you out. I think a lot of folks think souls games are single player. Maybe because that's how streamers play them? Idk.

Also, it's never Sekiro that get's brought up, with Sekiro having no Jolly Cooperation and likely being the most challenging of the Souls games.

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[–] PigPoopBallsDotJPG@hexbear.net 9 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Our goal involves creating a compelling progression path for all of our players. There's a lot of content at launch with even more coming via live service, and we'll continuously adjust our progression mechanics to give players a sense of accomplishment as they explore all of Battlefront 2

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[–] corgiwithalaptop@hexbear.net 15 points 4 months ago (4 children)

Cheat engine to the rescue!

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[–] BurgerPunk@hexbear.net 9 points 4 months ago

I really love that balance in fromsoft games. I love the level of tuning they do to make it feel like a fair challenge versus frustrating and cheap. I also feel that that balance is what gives the games its atmosphere and moment to moment appeal, because it forces you to consider your next step, to consider the risk/reward of going a little further vs turning back etc.

I could see how difficulty modes could cause problems or at least tons of work if they were trying to tune that balance for each difficulty. But, I'm all for accessbility options and modes. If there's an easy or accessibility option thats allows more people to play and enjoy souls without detracting from the standard experience that i enjoy then that sounds good to me.

[–] LeopardShepherd@hexbear.net 29 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Some Fromsoft fans sound like fucking cult members I swear to god. Like somehow adjusting the difficulty of the game takes away from the purity of the experience or some shit or take away from the satisfaction of progression. Ohh no it'll break the delicate balance oh god.

Buddy, I just wanna vibe with the atmosphere and the scenery sometimes instead of studying the blade or whatever the fuck. It's a video game, relax.

[–] Default_Defect@midwest.social 15 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I can't even talk to my friends about Fromsoft games because of shit like this, no "git gud" isn't a valid response to criticism made in good faith.

[–] JovialMicrobial@lemm.ee 9 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Long time fromsoft player and the git gud bullshit annoys the hell out of me.

It's just elitist, gatekeeping garbage. And this is coming from someone who puts my summon sign down regularly to help people.

For games built with and to some degree around cooperative gameplay, people aren't very good at being helpful to each other in discussions about the games.

That's why I don't participate in any of the online communities and just play with no headset. I'll help people defeat bosses because I have a great time doing it. Outside of that I find the community kinda off putting.

Edited to add - not all folks in the fromsoft communities are elitist, some are actually very kind, but there's just enough weird elitism that I find it to be unpleasant.

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[–] Frank@hexbear.net 8 points 4 months ago (17 children)

Buddy, I just wanna vibe with the atmosphere and the scenery sometimes instead of studying the blade or whatever the fuck. It's a video game, relax.

I think this might be the disconnect. If you just vibed with the scenary there isn't much to the games. You could run through the whole game in a few hours. I think Elden Ring only has four or five required boss fights and afaik every other fight is optional and you could run past all the enemies if you want to.

Much of the game - story, characters, and lore - only comes out if you spend a lot of time getting your ass kicked. Most of the game's background comes from random item drops you'd most likely miss if you got through every fight on the first try. There's a lot of information tied up in how enemies fight - similar enemies from different factions have subtly different equipment and weild different spells. Spell mechanics tie in to story stuff.

The other thing is - it's not easy to make the game easier. Most of the fighting relies on learning enemy movesets and timing. If you make the enemies deal %5 of their normal damage you're still not going to win if you can't figure out when you have openings to land hits. You'll end up being knocked down, staggered, afflicted with statuses, and all the rest of it. You could slow down the attack animations, but they'd look goofy af and become even harder to read.

As much as people scoff these games are carefully crafted works of art. There is wiggle room to make them "easier", but only so much due to the nature of the gameplay.

Additionally, the Elden Ring does have many mechanics - coop especially, to make it much more approachable to players who have struggled with previous entries in the series. I rarely seem people who complain about people who complain about the difficulty of the game discuss or engage with these systems.

Finally, i think there's a serious disconnect in the nature of the dark souls gameplay loop. You're supposed to die a whole lot. Every time you fight thrugh an area you have a chance for drops, you gain xp, and if you're paying attention you're figuring out the best path through the area in hopes of getting further next time. That process - advancing, learning, getting xp, dying, and repeating, is the core gameplay loop. If you don't enjoy that you likely won't have fun with the game.

I think a great deal of bad faith has accumulated - many people complaining about "git gud" don't seem to actually be interested in the game, only using it as a whipping boy for complaints about games gatekeeping difficulty. But dark souls and elden ring are generally the only games in the vast sea of available games discussed in this manner. It's these particular games that are essentially their own niche genre that peopke continue to be mad about over a decade after Dark Souls, despite each subsequent game having more features to make the games accessible to more people.

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[–] WeedReference420@hexbear.net 26 points 4 months ago
[–] ashinadash@hexbear.net 25 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

Celeste has an assist mode, which uh I simply did not use Idk. I tortured myself with its twitch platforming and felt I overcame it, but I don't even think assist players are losing out on much.

One of the other things Gamers™ need to accept is that the designer's word is not necessarily law. As far back as the Game Genie, people will use whatever they can to experience a game and that's fine honestly. People also want different things from games. It's like the author is dead.

[–] PM_ME_YOUR_FOUCAULTS@hexbear.net 15 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)

Just FYI, the "author is dead" thing is about interpreting a text directly according to what is actually there, without concerning yourself with what the "Author" may or may not have intended. When you talk about altering a text, by example, modding it or using a Game Genie, this is actually something quite different, because you are actually creating a new text that would then require different interpretations from the reader

barthes-shining barthes-cool

[–] ashinadash@hexbear.net 10 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I selected the Game Genie because it's not capable of adding stuff and it takes a lot more codework than normos would do to change the game considerably. But U Rite, modding especially is more like fanfiction, analagously.

[–] PM_ME_YOUR_FOUCAULTS@hexbear.net 11 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Video games are actually interesting wrt the conception of authorship, because it's even harder to assign a unitary Author to them. Hundreds of people have input on the finished product. Thousands if you count people like QA and beta testers.

[–] ashinadash@hexbear.net 9 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Most g*mers just reduce it to whoever the director is shrug-outta-hecks

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[–] LMagicalus@discuss.tchncs.de 10 points 4 months ago

I think the assist mode in Celeste is fantastic, especially since it doesn't disable any achievements AFAIK.

[–] keepcarrot@hexbear.net 20 points 4 months ago (4 children)

Me playing Workers and Resources, which allows you to just turn mechanics on and off mid-game (not all of them): No, I must plan my construction site's logistics perfectly! (also why would I give a shit about how other people play the game?)

(also, why do these hard game lovers not like the same hard games I like :( )

[–] BeamBrain@hexbear.net 8 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I've tried to get into Workers and Resources like 3 times now but every time I get about halfway through the tutorials before I realize I've just been clicking the buttons it told me to and haven't actually been learning anything. Then I look at how many more tutorials I need to fully comprehend before I can even start playing the game proper, and my brain just kind of shuts down.

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[–] Frank@hexbear.net 19 points 4 months ago

That's cool.

[–] AssortedBiscuits@hexbear.net 19 points 4 months ago (3 children)

This whole thing is a nothingburger with the right cheat codes, but because modern gaming^TM^ can't have cheat codes for some reason, we're stuck with these pointless arguments. It's simple:

  1. Make the game as hard or easy as you want.

  2. Add a million cheat codes that gamers can use to customize how they want their personal game experience to be.

The main difference between god mode cheat code and a no-death option is that there's an understanding that if you enter in cheat codes, the game might go off the rails with sequence breaking or even softlocking, which can be overcome be inputting even more cheat codes like level warping.

[–] Tervell@hexbear.net 7 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

Yeah, I don't care about having an easy mode - just give me access to the developer console (or even just some config files, I know how to use a text editor) and I'll make my own easy mode, thank you very much (or maybe I'll make a hard mode, you don't know). I can actually respect having a single difficulty mode, since balancing several is a genuinely difficult task - and the vast majority of games with multiple modes don't really do this, they just fall back on the classic solution of "give the enemies more HP and damage", and "I have to hit this enemy 100 times instead of 10" isn't a particularly compelling form of difficulty. Best case scenario would be customizable difficulty, but that's obviously more effort on the part of the dev and I can't demand that - but again, if you just give me access to some way to tweak the game, I can do some of it myself!

I think part of the problem here is that as games are a new medium, we're still in the process of developing the language we analyze and critique them with (and thanks to anti-intellectualism rampant in the community, it's going slow, people got mad about "ludonarrative dissonance" which wasn't even that fancy of a term, like "ludo"'s Latin but "narrative" and "dissonance" are perfectly normal and clear words), and as a consequence a lot of people are falling back on the existing analytical techniques we have. Except the core feature of the artform, the interactivity, kind of changes everything - people love to go on about "artistic vision", but in an interactive medium, the way you experience that artistic vision can be fundamentally different than it might be in a book or a movie.

If you're looking to provide a tightly-controlled experience, where every single moment is delivered perfectly according to your "vision"... then games just aren't the right medium, and trying to do this anyway is how we end up with cinematic AAA slop that constantly takes away control from the player for a cutscene every few minutes and fails you in missions for the slightest deviation from the script. Games actually continuing to develop as a medium requires accepting this interactivity and its consequences, and playing to its strengths rather than restricting it so you can make a mediocre movie with gameplay segments in between the scenes. And part of accepting the interactivity is changing our understanding on what's the "right" and "wrong" way to experience a game - it's significantly more difficult to actually define those concepts here than it would be for, say, a movie.

And besides - your game probably isn't some perfectly-balanced, completely coherent masterpiece, especially if it's some big AAA RPG - no work this massive, made by hundreds of people under time constraints (or dozens of people under even worse time constraints, since you're a AA developer and if you don't release this one on time you're going bankrupt) is going to be. You're going to have that one mechanic that sounded cool at the time but doesn't really fit well with the rest of the game, that one level where you ran out of time and just plopped some enemies down without much thought, that one annoying puzzle or trap that you thought was simple but turns out to be frustrating in a bunch of subtle ways that you missed because you're not Valve and you don't have the luxury of just running a gajillion playtests. Going "damn, this sequence/boss is really hard, I'm just not having a good time here" and wanting to turn the difficulty down for a moment isn't necessarily violating some great artistic vision - maybe the sequence actually just sucks, and doesn't in any way represent what the devs intended for it because they just ran out of time.

[–] AssortedBiscuits@hexbear.net 8 points 4 months ago (1 children)

100% agree. AAA games continue to ape Oscar bait Hollywood films. Like, don't you think it's weird how all this time, there isn't a genre of comedic games? Comedies are a massive film genre, but I bet you despite the thousands upon thousands of games developed per year, you probably couldn't even name 100 comedic games. Not games that have funny one-liners or funny characters, but games developed from the ground up to be comedic like how a comedy is written and directed as a comedy. And perhaps the worst part of it is that due to its interactivity, games are actually well-suited for comedy, especially physical comedy. Ludonarrative dissonance can be better resolved through lampshading in a comedic game. But because physical comedy is considered low-brow, AAA games have to chase after "emotional moments" that frankly rarely deliver. This is either done through completely noninteractive cutscenes (ie a film within a game) or something like HL2 where all the gravitas of the scene is completely undermined by the player bunnyhopping and hitting NPCs with the crowbar.

Mods make it really obvious games have massive comedic potential and are at their best when there's a degree of levity. Skyrim mods that turn swords into dildos and dragons into flying Thomas the Tank Engine far more embody the spirit of gaming than anything else.

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[–] comrade_pibb@hexbear.net 16 points 4 months ago

Under communism, all video games will be required to include an option to launch Gamers in to the sun

[–] PoisonIvy@lemmygrad.ml 15 points 4 months ago (1 children)

You control the buttons you press. That should be the end of every discussion like this. I hate gamers so much and that includes a lot of you here.

[–] Procapra@hexbear.net 11 points 4 months ago

I really wish more games had higher difficulty options, but that doesn't mean I want everyone to suffer the way I do. Accessibility is good!

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