Hamas never posed an existential threat to Israel.
this post was submitted on 01 Jun 2024
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“Major” meaning they couldn’t pull off another October 7th
Though really they shouldn't have been able to pull off the first October 7th.
Yup, reminder that they ignored prior warnings
And strongly suspected of outright sponsoring Hamas to generate the casus belli
That's not even just a strong suspicion, that's established fact. Even aggressively pro-regime rags such as Times of Israel, The New York Times and The Jerusalem Post acknowledge as much.
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In the 7th attacks maybe but we don't know yet. We do know that Israel has funded them in the past though
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Yeah I find it hard to believe that the Israeli intelligence apparatus, Mossad, one of the best HUMINT organizations on par with the old Soviet Union KGB, failed to see October 7 coming.
Also warnings from US SIGINT that an attack was probable about a month in advance.
I really think there are two different aspects to the classification of the threat. It’s actually pretty analogous to the Afghanistan War.
First, neither Al Quaeda nor Hamas represent an existential threat to their opponents. The US hasn’t really faced a believable existential threat since the collapse of the USSR, Israel hasn’t really faced one since the 80s. Countries in Eastern Europe face an existential threat from Russia. And so on. Killing 1200 (or 3000) people, no matter how brutally or unjustified or evil it seems, it does not threaten to destroy the state of Israel. It is, of course, now an existential threat to Netanyahu, which is one reason why it’s being pursued with such enthusiasm.
The second aspect builds from the first and questions whether the solution pursued by Israel (and the US) were both efficient (ie proportional to the threat so as not to divert attention and resources from other threats) and effective. They have to be expected to achieve specific and measurable goals and timelines.
The ability to pull off an Oct 7th might have been equally well but more efficiently and effectively with intelligence and commando units, and Israel would have been given free rein by most of the planet to do so.
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Title was about a major threat
Palestinians aren't a threat to israel.
Israel is a threat to Palestinians.
But Hamas is or maybe was a threat to Israel
Israel already had one or the two piece puzzle to stopping Hamas from being a threat; they had a strong air-defense system, and could've used their military reserves to actually properly defend their border. A disgrace that motorcycles and gliders could just waltz on over, especially in lieu of known intelligence of an impending attack.
Leveling Gaza only exacerbates radicalization for decades to come without actually addressing the root causes for said radicalization.
They're just following the Western playbook for counter-terrorism but it's next level deranged
If you punch people they are a threat because they might punch back - israel
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Palestinian civilians would also be allowed to return to their homes across the enclave
Oof.
They'll be welcome to pick up the rubble and extract the remains of their family on their own time and labor.
his agreement/plan also called for extensive reconstruction efforts for gaza....
Hundreds of thousands of temporary shelters would also be delivered.
Reconstruction will not be overnight and theres a lot of things like schools and hospitals to rebuild too.
The plan is to work with partners towards reconstruction. I know that terminology well: If I am to compare this to how this kind of stuff is handled domestically after say, a natural disaster: a lot of people are going to be left waiting a long time in rubble.
I think estimates are month or two ago was that it would take upward of a decade to clear rubble. Unless Israel ends its siege they will have a hard time importing any building materials, and countries that historically sponsored major works such as hospitals and universities will be reluctant to do so, because why invest hundreds a of millions into a construction project that Israel will just bomb a few years later?
It's ridiculous how much rebuilding takes, at least in the US, and how much racism and classism plays into it.
I went to NOLA like 5 years after Hurricane Katrina and most of the houses I saw in "certain" (poor) neighborhoods still had the spray paint on them from first responders. Also one of the (predominantly black) universities there I don't think had fully rebuilt either at that point while the other (predominantly white) university had just gotten a new sports field.
I just can't imagine being in a war torn place where much of the world hardly acknowledges you as a human and trying to rebuild your community.
It just blows my mind every day the cruelty in this world - and the fact that there are so many genocides happening simultaneously. I still remember when I was a small child finding out that WW2 did not hold the only genocide the world had ever or would ever see. I still can't quite wrap my head around it.
For me it was rodney king, figured that shit belonged back in the 1800s and we weren't a bunch of fucking barbarians any more. It's hard, coming from what should be, into what is.
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Biden telling Israel to stop, without interfering. Complain all you want about Biden, but he just did what you wanted.
We demand him to interfer. We demand hi to stop sending weapons and to sanction Israel. We demand war criminals to be brought to justice, instead we get the ICC threatened by the US.
Also the proposal of Biden is practically the same as the peace deal Hamas has accepted a few weeks back and was rejected by Israel, only then for the US to send more weapons, which since have been used to massacre women and children again and again.
Israel has actually rejected this "deal" already despite Hamas being in favor. Biden can fuck off and so can the hundreds of his sycophants on Lemmy. Before I get accused of supporting trump. I don't and I can't vote in your bs election anyway so shove that where the fucking sun don't shine.
Biden did fuck all. Until there are severe sanctions on Israel government, Biden can fuck off.
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You can't call it good faith to say, "hey, cut it out" while checks notes STILL SUPPLYING WEAPONS.
I didn't want him to be a hypocrite if that's what you're implying
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Likud poses a major threat to Palestine.
Likud poses a major threat to Israel.
The israeli government needs to be dismantled so Palestinians can live safely.
After what they just did they just have radicalized way more people than the number of Hamas fighters they managed to kill.
Cool, so you'll stop giving Israel money and/or weapons, right?
Padme stares at Anakin
Right?
Legally, he actually can't.
One day Palestine will be free just like all those old colonized countries
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Ok, so is he willing to finally enforce a cease-fire?
Even if he is, there's probably a law on the books restricting what he can do towards that end, because fucking AIPAC apparently had the advance plans for how the 10/7 war would play out and slapped a shitton of barriers down on cutting aid to israel or consequencing them in any way at the peak of the "criticizing israel is antisemitism!" mindset
Even if there's a legal text that enforces providing aid to Israel, there's also legal text forbidding it. If the executive can't solve the contradiction of different laws forcing them to do one thing and its opposite, simultaneously respecting both, they're at a position where they can choose which side they want to give priority to.
You can't "enforce" a cease fire without invading Israel and physically stop them. Sanctions are wrist slaps.
The threat is gone, Israel. You can stop killing innocent children now.
Oh I know you won't regardless. Honestly, why do you claim to be "defending yourself" anyway if you're basically doing this?
It'll never be gone because too many people feel like they need to hold onto their hatred.
Of course they can find an excuse.
Jesus Christ, joe. I guess I was wrong and you haven't been paying attention to the subject for the last 70+ years?
Hamas is just an arm of the resistance movement against western/american imperialism, which mostly means israel over there, it being the client state. they want their land back.
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