this post was submitted on 20 May 2024
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[–] manucode@infosec.pub 200 points 7 months ago (4 children)

The CNN headline is a bit misleading. It's not the International Criminal Court as a whole that is seeking these arrest warrants but the ICC's chief prosecutor Karim Khan. The judges have yet to decide on these warrants.

[Side note: This is the same kind of lazy journalism that uses terms like EU chief or EU leader interchangeably for the President of the European Commission (Ursula von der Leyen) and the President of the European Council (Charles Michel). If this was limited to a short headline, I could excuse it, but CNN continues with the same wording in the first sentence of the article: "The International Criminal Court is seeking arrest warrants for ..." which is absolutely unnecessary, even if CNN clarifies things later.]

[–] Hugh_Jeggs@lemm.ee 75 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

I've always considered CNN to stand for Clearly Not News

Edit - the BBC headline starts "ICC prosecutor seeks arrest of..."

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3ggpe3qj6wo

[–] solo@slrpnk.net 21 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Ok, this is very interesting. How is it he took this initiative? Actually, is it an initiative or part of the process?

[–] Ranvier@sopuli.xyz 42 points 7 months ago (7 children)

It's part of the process. Now the request is before judges who will decide whether or not to issue the arrest warrants. For reference, when an ICC prosecutor asked for an arrest warrant for Vladmir Putin, it took a couple months for the judges to decide and then issue the warrant.

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[–] Buelldozer@lemmy.today 9 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Modern Journalism, and I use that term loosely, at work. Once you notice these kinds of misleading to incorrect headlines you can't stop seeing them.

[–] Cornelius_Wangenheim@lemmy.world 8 points 7 months ago

I think that's a distinction without a difference. How would the ICC seek an arrest warrant if not by having the chief prosecutor submit one? If the court had approved it, the title would be "arrest warrant issued by ICC".

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 67 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Biden can't save him, because we wouldn't agree to the Rome act because we thought that somehow meant we couldn't be charged at the Hauge for our war crimes. That's not true tho, we don't have to agree to it.

Israel and the United States are not members of the ICC. However, the ICC claims to have jurisdiction over Gaza, East Jerusalem and the West Bank after Palestinian leaders formally agreed to be bound by the court’s founding principles in 2015.

[–] nahuse@sh.itjust.works 16 points 7 months ago (10 children)

I mean… yes you do, since that’s a little bit how international law works? Countries who do not sign and ratify the Rome statute and then remain in there aren’t governed by the ICC in the same way.

You will see in the excerpt you quoted, the reason the ICC believes it has jurisdiction is because of events taking place in Palestine, which has taken part in the Rome Statute previously.

And the United States has a law that says it will militarily invade The Hague if any US service member is arrested and held by the court. It came about along with all the other legislative bullshit in the years after 9/11/01. The US had previously been a founding member of the ICC, but withdrew for reasons of sovereignty.

[–] Treczoks@lemmy.world 22 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Sovereignity, my ass. They just don't want war crimes committed by their own military investigated by an independent body.

[–] nahuse@sh.itjust.works 12 points 7 months ago

Correct.

That position and sovereignty are not mutually opposed, depending on the view you take towards international law.

[–] SmilingSolaris@lemmy.world 11 points 7 months ago

Hittem with that "sovereignty to do what?"

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[–] Treczoks@lemmy.world 51 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Nice that they see the criminals on both sides.

[–] RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world 30 points 7 months ago (23 children)

Same side.

Hamas is almost totally funded by Benny and his croneys.

[–] Deway@lemmy.world 15 points 7 months ago

Was I think, they stopped a few years ago.

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[–] solo@slrpnk.net 48 points 7 months ago (3 children)

I'm not sure I understand how these warrants can take place. It will come from other member states in case any of them travel there?

Also how is it that Putin has not been arrested yet? Has he avoided those destinations.

If I misunderstood something or everything, please let me know.

[–] anlumo@lemmy.world 94 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Yes, Putin has avoided those destinations so far. He even got warned by South Africa that they’d have to arrest him if he were to travel to a meeting there.

[–] solo@slrpnk.net 20 points 7 months ago

Thank you for the clarification!

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 42 points 7 months ago (2 children)

They can't make a country arrest it's own leader.

But if they travel to any UN country, the country is supposed to arrest them, or coordinate with countries willing to.

So these are more like an exile than anything.

Kind of like a sanction but instead of money it's on personal travel.

Sanctions are still waaaaaay more effective though and what we should be doing. Money is what these despots care about.

[–] skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de 16 points 7 months ago (1 children)

so this also means that if netanyahu loses elections, he can be just sent to hague

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 32 points 7 months ago (1 children)

If the person who beats him wants too...

And if Netenyahu even lets Israel have elections. Before 10/7 he was already in the process of getting kicked out of office, the only reason he's still in power is 10/7.

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[–] Fades@lemmy.world 46 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

Good, this is a situation in which both sides are both truly disgusting and vile, using people as pawns, shields, etc.

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 12 points 7 months ago (4 children)

Yeah, for some reason too many people are having difficulty understanding that in this case, yes, the both side argument works quite well. Both Hamas and the Israeli government are horrible with the citizens on both side suffering

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[–] ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works 39 points 7 months ago

Regardless of the technicalities and nuances in the reporting: this is a good thing.

[–] breakfastmtn@lemmy.ca 35 points 7 months ago (3 children)

Can we talk about a story that's fallen through the cracks here? CNN claiming this as an exclusive is madness. Who do these people think they are? And should the ICC issue arrest warrants about it? 😉

[–] solo@slrpnk.net 13 points 7 months ago (1 children)

CNN claiming this as an exclusive is madness

That's an excellent point you're making

[–] Siegfried@lemmy.world 9 points 7 months ago (1 children)

EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW

Have anyone opened the link?

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[–] otter@lemmy.ca 26 points 7 months ago

More links

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3ggpe3qj6wo

https://apnews.com/article/icc-khan-netanyahu-070941d21ccd1f2b9611032b88527575

Karim Khan said that he believes Netanyahu, his defense minister Yoav Gallant and three Hamas leaders — Yehia Sinwar, Mohammed Deif and Ismail Haniyeh — are responsible for war crimes and crimes against humanity in the Gaza Strip and Israel.

The prosecutor must request the warrants from a pre-trial panel of three judges, who take on average two months to consider the evidence and determine if the proceedings can move forward.

Israel is not a member of the court, and even if the arrest warrants are issued, Netanyahu and Gallant do not face any immediate risk of prosecution. But Khan’s announcement deepens Israel’s isolation as it presses ahead with its war, and the threat of arrest could make it difficult for the Israeli leaders to travel abroad.

Both Sinwar and Deif are believed to be hiding in Gaza as Israel tries to hunt them down. But Haniyeh, the supreme leader of the Islamic militant group, is based in Qatar and frequently travels across the region.

[–] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 25 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Let's check what the left wing "progressive" israelis think about this.

[–] Valmond@lemmy.world 19 points 7 months ago

It's not comparing them, they have just all went over the bar for being war criminals.

[–] beardown@lemm.ee 14 points 7 months ago

Herein lies one of the innumerable differences between democratic socialists and liberals

[–] baatliwala@lemmy.world 22 points 7 months ago (6 children)

Fucking hell got so confused by the title, was wondering what the fuck do these guys have to do with cricket.

[–] Blackmist 10 points 7 months ago

The cricket council honestly has more chance of bringing any of these cunts to justice than the real ICC.

I mean fucking Kony is still on the list, and I forget how long ago that was a thing, and he was on their list long before that.

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[–] AFC1886VCC@reddthat.com 21 points 7 months ago (1 children)

They've already called it antisemitic.

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[–] IndustryStandard@lemmy.world 19 points 7 months ago

You mean "they did it first" doesn't hold up in international court?

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 17 points 7 months ago (6 children)

“Let me be clear,” the president said in the statement, “whatever this prosecutor might imply, there is no equivalence – none – between Israel and Hamas.”

Biden saying the right things as usual. /s

[–] nednobbins@lemm.ee 16 points 7 months ago

It's true. Hamas is posting rookie numbers. They've got to up their death count by around 10x before they can be in Israel's league.

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