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How can anyone see this and not see that the US is a manipulative shithole country? Champion of the free world markets except when they aren't winning, then closed market manipulation and government interference.
The US hasn't been ahead for many years and they can't innovate. So now they just want to keep out actual progress.
And China isn’t trying to manipulate the market? These Chinese cars are all sold at loss.
Nobody wants to listen to reason or actually think any of this through they just want their artificially cheap products. The same people who claim to support unions and raising wages for average workers are now arguing against both because they might be able to get one new car out of the deal before all the competition crumbles and we're back to high prices and beholden to China for all our automotive needs. It's ridiculous to have to keep reading this hypocrisy over and over again.
Apparently used vehicles are so 2020 and we should scrap all 220 million of them and build brand new ones because that's what's good for the environment.
It’s the same as the arguments for cheap big macs. Fair! Until it’s more expensive for me..
People are clowns.
How're you enjoying that artificially cheap gas 🤣🤣🤣🤣
It is artificially cheap here when compared to other major countries. What's your point?
The point is you're also enjoying artificially cheap shit. The only difference is do you want artificially cheap oil or artificially cheap EVs. I know what choice Id make.
No the difference is that we're subsidizing our oil in our own market. It'd only be comparable if we were trying to sell our oil to some other country at a cost well below the competition.
Because that's all they can AFFORD due to gigantic corporations colluding to make housing, food, healthcare, medicine, and yes, cars artificially expensive.
You're acting like poverty is an irresponsible choice by the consumers rather than the inevitable effect of extreme corporate profiteering allowed because the politicians are receiving bribes.
And yes, the president formerly known as The Senator from MBNA is very much one of those corrupt politicians.
[Citation needed]
That's exactly what this ridiculously high tariff does: it removes competition so that American carmakers won't have to lower their ridiculously high prices.
Yeah, because being beholden to the notoriously corrupt and abusive big US automakers and paying more for the privilege is MUCH better! 🙄
Is what I think every time party robots such as yourself who rightly castigated Trump for his harmful trade war with China but are now cheering on Biden doing the same with many of the same justifications.
Burning Man called. They want their colossal strawman back.
What people are being forced to buy expensive new cars? I make decent money and always buy used because it's a much better value.
I've done nothing of the sort. You're advocating for a bunch of US manufacturing workers to get laid off because you want to buy a new car for an unreasonably low price.
Are you joking? This is the entire topic of discussion.
How does this remove competition? What it removes is the effects of unsustainable subsidies that artificially reduce the price of these cars. They're free to compete with the rest of the industry on a level playing field.
In what way are we beholden to US automakers (Ford, GM, and Tesla)? What a ridiculous statement. Have you never been car shopping before? There's a lot more brands for sale here than those three.
So this is about party politics now? I think Biden and Trump are both pieces of shit. You can dig through my comment history if you don't believe me.
You must not have read through the comments here. Half of them are saying we're all doomed if we can't get our hands on these cheap new cars.
Ford lost an estimated $36,000 on each of the 36,000 EVs it delivered to dealers in the third quarter.
Source? And don't link to a Ford article...
CNN or Reuters, but ultimately the info comes from Ford, obviously
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ford-reduce-f-150-lightning-production-2024-01-19/
You’re gonna need a source for that claim. I’ve read a lot about EVs and never once has anyone ever said BYD is selling at a loss.
Heavily subsidized, which is equivalent in this context.
How China Rose to Lead the World in Cars and Solar Panels
(paywall-free version)
China Vies to Be World’s Leader in Electric Cars
(paywall-free version)
Finding these articles took about ten seconds in a web search.
That’s not equivalent. Oil and gas are heavily subsidized in the USA as well, that does not mean they’d be running at a loss if it weren’t for the subsidies, it just means their profits would be lower. Please provide a source stating that they’re operating at a loss.
So what if the car is sold at a loss? I also find that extremely hard to believe when BYD Company has a net income of nearly $23 Billion dollars, and their largest subsidiary is BYD Auto.
The subsidy is included in that income. They are being paid by the Chinese govt in part or in particular to damage foreign manufacturing base and economies and to keep them out of China as a strategic move.
"So what" is a fair question that deserves an answer. The most obvious concern is if they are able to hurt our manufacturing, we become reliant on their car's and the prices go up and we start exporting more of our wealth and we as a nation become poorer and less able to fight back on predatory practices.
There are also national defense considerations to having a weak manufacturing base. That's why we are trying to build up our semiconductor capabilities because we are already too reliant on SE Asia for comfort.
The Chevy Bolt was consistently praised as a wonderful EV, but last I heard GM lost money on it factoring in the battery recall, so I don't think the goal here is to protect the "massive profits" by keeping prices high.
Is this particular move the right one? Too much? Too little? All good questions and folks who know way more about it could have a healthy debate, but there are good reasons other than fucking over American car buyers. Walmart and Amazon have destroyed local retailers to our detriment, and that's the sort of situation this aims to prevent. But I can't say whether it's the right solution or will ultimately work.
Very well thought out, thanks for replying and being honest that no one can accurately assess the outcome of this move yet.
In my eyes, including subsidies in a company's financials feels more honest than the alternative, though I'd like to see a breakdown of income vs subsidies. I also feel that criticisms of subsidies are hypocritical in this instance, considering that US farming is held up by duct tape, spit, and subsidies.
I do also understand the concerns about being reliant on a single country's manufacturing and how it could impact national defense, though I would like to submit that we're already so reliant on Chinese manufacturing capabilities at this point that seeding discord like this is going to have some negative consequences in other markets manufactured in China.
I have never seen proof that these cars are sold at a loss. I did read an article how they got giant grants to Kickstart their battery tech and production. So maybe someone is doing some weird back accounting for that?
If someone does have a source of each individual vehicle being subsidized, I would love to see it.
I wouldnt call cheap cars made by slaves innovative