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Jews are an ethnic group, culture, and religion, but not a race. It's a common enough misconception spread via the media. Also any given Jew is not necessarily all three.
The lesson from World War II is that war can only delay the spread of an idea, but not destroy it. Ideas have to be fought with other ideas. Killing Nazis only bought us time to think of better ideas, spread them, and deradicalize people. Thanks to conservative propaganda networks and social media, we're on the verge of a fascist takeover. We are in an information race against fascists. The fascists are turning the US into a christofascist dictatorship, by controlling the narrative and driving the news cycle, not by killing anyone. We have to beat them in this race to stop them.
Israeli is not the same thing as Jewish.
Many Jewish people hate Israel.
I’d be willing to bet you could find one or two Israelies (Israelites?) that hate Israel too.
Israeli is modern inhabitants, Israelites are the ones from the old testament
Got it. Thanks!
I realized when typing I wasn’t sure
Yes, I am Jewish, but not Israeli. I assumed most people referring to Israelis as a race are referring to Jews a race. It seems weird to confuse nationality with race in the 21st century.
I don't hate Israel, because hating Israel is more taxing to me than it is to Israel. I think Israel is an apartheid state that's committing genocide and war crimes in Gaza, Zionism is a fascist ideology, the current Israeli government is dominated by fascists, and that the concept that we need a Jewish ethnostate in order to be safe is ridiculous. Israel needs to change radically and it needs to change as soon as possible.
I thought one of the best lessons was that you don't deal with an aggressive and genocidal nation through appeasement.
We should be fighting against Israel, not appeasing them.
That was also one of the lessons. It's why we are sending weapons to Ukraine to fight Russia and plan on defending Taiwan against China.
It would be a lot easier to do that if we hadn't be allied with Israel for over 75 years. It's not normal for allies to turn on each other like that.
Regardless, there can be more than one lesson from a historical event. Fascism is an idea. It has to be fought with other ideas.
that was the lesson from the start. that theres one way to stop fascism and genocide both.
the lesson from the end was: you didn't kill enough fucking Nazis.
who the fuck mentioned Jews here?
I'm talking about Israelis, cut your equivocating antisemitic bullshit. talk like that gets people killed by idiots who can't tell the difference, but know genocide is bad and Nazis dying is good.
we didn't stop Nazism because we didn't kill enough Nazis, on either side of the ocean. the fuckers who got social media in on it can be traced back to that. if we'd killed more Nazis then, we wouldn't have these problems now.
If someone refers to Israelis as a race I would assume they are confusing Jews, an ethnic group, culture and religion as a race as opposed to confusing Israelis, a nationality, as a race.
Even if we had killed everyone who was a Nazi, the ideas could be still be spread by people who are not Nazis and then internalized and adopted by a new group of Nazis. Ideas outlive the people came up with them and believed in them. The best that would do is kick the can further down the road, but we still have to deal with this problem eventually.
don't think I referred to tfem as a race but I could have. I'm not super likely to bother scrolling up for a hezbarite though.
the ideas could have been spread by people who weren't Nazis, but were I'm this actual extant timeline spread by actual Nazis.
american civil war was the same. every one of those slaver families needed to die. every adult, and possibly the children, if they weren't adopted out (possibly to the people who should have got the property and would have done the raising if the slavers had won anyway). yes that's technically genocide, but I'm saying it should have happened to some of my shitty ancestors, and I still think I'm right. that culture of keeping human beings imprisoned as chattel slaves needed to die, and because we left them alive; it didn't.
I was referring to the poster above you.
My point is that killing all Nazis wouldn't have prevented Fascism from spreading.
Killing all slave owners wouldn't have stopped the Lost Cause of the Confederacy myth which is responsible for the confederate sympathizers we have today. The myth is an idea and can be spread by people who don't own slaves.
so why are you arguing with me?
hard disagree. it would have stopped. maybe somebody would have dug it up later and started it back up, but it would have stopped.
I met them. their grandchildren and great children, at family reunions. they worked hard to craft and propagate these myths. they were proud of it. expected their grandchildren to keep it up.
now, me noping out isn't so much fix as those first couple generations did damage, abd that's why I think they should have been killed. every single one.
I was agreeing with you. I added my two cents.
People who weren't Nazis knew what fascism was. Fascists wrote books and gave speeches. Fascism would still exist in peoples' minds as a concrete idea that can be communicated to other people even if no Nazis survived the war.
People who didn't own slaves spread the myth as well. Killing entire families of slave owners would not have stopped this.
The fascists and confederate sympathizers of today aren't necessarily direct biological descendants of those in the past. They are ideological descendants.
read and respond to this. read and fucking respond to this please.
propagated it, but somebody had to do the initial push, and in telling you, from my own family, they're proud of the major push and consensus manufacturing they accomplished, even well into the 20th century. this is not hypothetical, this is literally what I have seen and heard them admit to me and noticed them try to push me to continue the tradition. this is what happened, and open historical documents noting membership in the early kkk and dotc support it.
this happened. it was real. it likely still is real. atop denying history to spare fucking Nazis.
and its not just here. the old Italian fascists were mentors of the current Italian fascist leaders, including Mussolini's family. the places the rat lines lead to tended to have fascist coups during the 20th century. modi's explicitly fascist RSS (currently doing a genocide) was founded as a stay-behind by Nazi agents in the 30s.
kill. more. fucking. Nazis. all of them. kill all the Nazis. every single fucking one, or it will happen again. and again. and again.
Fascism doesn't stop until everyone internalizes that fascism is a terrible ideology. And then keeps teaching that to new generations.
Killing people won't kill their ideas. The myth of lost cause would still have been spread by non-slave owners. It just would have taken longer. People don't have to directly learn about fascism from a 20th century fascist to become fascists. Even if every living Nazi, fascist, and confederate sympathizer dropped dead right now we would run into this problem sooner rather than later. Ideas and information are freely available on the internet. They circulate faster than ever before. If we don't defeat these ideas then we will keep having this problem no matter how many people die.
it would have taken longer and killing slavers is no great loss. I also think it would have been less coherent and less awful, it wouldn't have had money behind it, it would have been less sticky. I'm not sure it would have survived.
so theres a benefit but no down side to killing every last one.