this post was submitted on 12 Jul 2023
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What I find particularly interesting is that the Confederacy only existed for 4 years, meaning to run around with an Obama flag would more historically relevant than this shit.
I also like how people do it in Northern states. I live in Indiana and I see the Stars and Bars all the time. Sometimes with the Indiana state flag. The fools don't even know what side we were on.
It's all over in WV. The state that seceded from the Confederacy. And then when confronted they say it's their heritage.
Mother fucker, what heritage?
Racism. that's it. 'Heritage' is code for racism and 'family values' is code for heterosexism
They're proud of more things than just racism. Like poverty
It's a good thing they are great at being sneaky, otherwise we wouldn't be able to figure it out almost instantaneously...
1000%. We elected a coal baron to governor and he's planning to run for house or senate next, likely to win.
The culture here is fucked. They'll fly the flag their grandfather's died to fight against, they'll vote for people their grandfather's died to oppose, and they'll condemn education their father's worked to provide for them, all under the guise of "dems want to take my guns and make my kids trans".
Heritage of power
What do you mean?
White
Dude, they have people flying them in Canada. I don't think there's much common sense in the folks who publicly display it.
I once asked a guy why he would fly a Confederate flag in Canada and he said, “If you have to ask you wouldn’t understand.”
I guess he was right. I don’t understand.
It's a rebellious symbol. If talking heads said the flag of Kazakhstan was evil and we should all hate anyone who has one, it would have been that.
Bruh ive seen this shit in CANADA!!!!! like my guy, we beat them well before the damn civil war, we were event THERE!!!!
Some idiots even use it in Europe and Australia,
I thought that was a nickname for the regular flag. TIL
"Old Glory"
So THAT'S why you have to throw it out the minute it gets damaged! To avoid Glory holes!
I see it on Ohio too. Go ask someone from the south if Ohio has Yankees or not
I've been in fucking college longer than a whole ass country existed LMAO
“Historically relevant” or “historically significant” is really tricky thing to judge sometimes. While Obama’s 2 terms as president meant he was in charge for 8 years vs the Confederacy’s 4, I believe the Confederacy and the US Civil War they caused was more historically relevant than Obama’s 8 years as president.
There’s a whole lot of nasty from the war and immediate fall out we’re seeing feeling today.
one could argue that the prelude to the civil war started before independence, since the Quakers were anti-slavery. even disregarding that, fighting was occuring over slavery for decades prior to the formation of the Confederacy - the famous bit at the tail end of that, "bleeding Kansas", occured in the early 1850s.
a mere 4 or 8 year length of time is largely inconsequential.
The US Civil War is more significant than just the penultimate legal question on slavery. It also set the tone for politics for the next 50 years, completely destroyed the population and economy of nearly half the country, and paved the road for some of the most important Amendments to the US Constitution.
Plus the advances in war time technologies, tactics, and medicine weren’t too shabby.
I imagine it's much like the pride flag, where people make it their whole personality. I fully expect people to be brandishing some form of pride flag in 150 years, though it will probably look even more silly by then.
It's amusing to me listening to an American talking about people making flags their personality.
This is coming from a country where you can get an american flag on anything you want.
I moved to the US and it still weirds me out how many flags i see in a day
flying a flag is like passive support for/resistance against something.
it's easy virtue signaling, basically
Which, incidentally, is a violation of U.S. flag code. So much for patriotism.
Idk if the Pride flag, something that inherently describes a large part of a person's identity and is a sign of community, is equatable to the Confederate flag.
It is part of no one's identity; no one alive was part of the confederacy. No one alive has parents in the confederacy. It is a sign of the Confederate States and their secession from the US over owning slaves; it is a sign of racism.
Its not about it being their personality its the fact that being gay and out IS a form of defiance and existence IS a crime. People in the US are still killing people for being gay. im not even gonnna bring up the countries that are LITEREALLY sending people to death by law for being gay imagine being persecuted for being who you are born. Existing can become a death sentence, so you fight for your right to have peace of mind for you and your community to just live.
Its a fight for live, not a personality trait.
I've had people try to incite hate against me for being supposedly gay, which is kind of strange since I'm not. I could feel the disgust and viciousness, and this was from a supposedly super-liberal woman who claims to be bi herself. Irony is both of her kids turned out to be gay, ha. Anyway, some people really do want to kill you. It's insane.
I grew up with men saying that lesbians just needed a good f*****g and they would get in line. My aunt is gay so it was VERY confusing because these men knew that.
Her life was very much surrpunded by "the gay are disgusting but not you, youre a good gay" 🙄
I don't understand German but it doesn't mean the language scares me or that I want to ban it.
why pick on the German language? why not Swahili, Portuguese, or Tamil?
I chose one of the 7000+ that are used.
Would you like to add to this conversion or just focus on something inconsequential?
and then tell everyone else about it, like vegans
It has been a little sad watching the evolution of the Pride flag, because the adoption of the rainbow symbol was meant to show that everyone was included. Now the newest versions just show how eager we are to subdivide ourselves, which has made it easier for the conservatives to roll back on the gains the movement made in the 00's.
I am facinated by what you call subdivison i see as recognition. Thats a very interesting coin were looking at.
I would say to avoid separation and alienation within the community we all have to work for intersectionality and communal empathy.
I was active in politicking for gay rights back in the 00's, and back then the word "gay" was synonymous with "queer". It meant everyone. The rainbow flag was the same way. Now the average person has no way of understanding the terminology or symbolism various factions use within the broader queer community, and it's made it easier to alienate certain populations (trans people being the very visible example right now). There's simply no unity because the various communities have willfully subdivided.
I'm not an activist anymore (mental illness makes it too hard) but the queer community really, really needs to unite and recognize the greater threat of resurgent fascism, in my opinion. That's harder to do when people have subdivided themselves and the various factions can't come together to fight the real enemy.
I'll take "Tell me you were never actually an ally without telling me you were never an ally" for $100 Alex.
The flag was updated to include more folks who are oppressed as a minority. Anyone who is a target due to things like their sexuality, gender, disabilities, skin color, or other inherent traits belongs in it. The whole point is to band together because the groups in it are small and vulnerable. The fact that the updated flag bothers you and you're willing to complain about it really speaks volumes to how much and why it matters to you.
This gatekeeping is exactly what they're lamenting. Alienating people who have been fighting for equal rights for decades because they're not pure enough is why the culture is turning.
They said they supported gays and are saying the new flag is divisive, despite it being more inclusive. The rainbow flag was not really representative for everyone, as it was predominately associated with gay men and lesbians, and was updated to try and include others in the LGBTQIA+ community that weren't getting enough (or any!) representation. I'm calling out their signalling that they are an ally while they also claim that one of the problems with the community is that it is somehow more divisive, despite being more accepting and broader than ever before.
I find that being gatekept would mean that I don't allow someone to be part of the community, and in a way I did do that. I'll admit that part of my response was rude and probably uncalled for. This whole comment section is full of apologists for the confederate flag, and in my first reading I might have taken their intent more harshly than they meant. I'm sorry about that. I did not mean to gatekeep and in the future I'll be more careful to not rebuke those who seem to mean well, even if I am hurt or concerned by what they said.
I still feel that focusing on the updated flag and how it may be seen as divisive is not very productive or helpful to the overall community, and overall the LGBTQIA+ community fights fascism at every turn. Having these tough conversations about marginalized groups and how they can be better represented is what helped spur the community to adopt the updated flags, regardless of opinions on it. Because, at the end of the day, it is a bunch of smaller groups banding together to protect one another. Flying the rainbow flag, progress, or updated progress w/ intersex are all valid ways to show support and raise awareness. I feel that way even in regards to flags representing smaller subsets, such as the lesbian, trans, or asexual flags.
Things change. Part of being progressive is accepting that. When politicking for said rights in the 00s, people weren't trying to take away anyone's rights, we were trying to grant them, such as letting LGBT people be in the military and get married to those of the same gender. The fight now is to keep those and other rights. And if that includes recognition and inclusion to help normalize things, good. It should. Stop being a dinosaur.
100% agree with you on this.