this post was submitted on 02 Nov 2023
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can someone please explain why vegans are allowed to engage in sectarian gatekeeping? Anarchists and MLs are rightly prevented from fighting about who is and isn't a real leftist, that should extend to vegan users not saying we're not real leftists for eating meat or using animal products.
Because the difference between anarchists and communists is one of strategy while the difference between vegans and bloodmouths is wanting to cause suffering for selfish reasons. It's not sectarian.
And no. If you're not following your ethics to the ultimate conclusion and still have a strain of "I deserve the exploits of others suffering" in you, then you're not actually a leftist.
oh so Cuba, Viet Nam, China, the USSR, the DPRK, the Paris commune... all are or were vegan? funny how that bit gets left out of the history books
Folks used the same argument here early on during trans struggle sessions and we correctly adopted the position that to be leftist your need to be pro-trans.
Also we are obviously talking about current conditions.
Vegans aren't a marginalized group of people, they aren't being genocided by Evangelical fascists, full fucking stop
Trans people deserve to be considered a protected class here, vegans don't
Vegans are arguing about the oppression of animals, not themselves. Animals are being genocided, and in the most extreme way seen in history.
This is a poor analogy. Vegans are not the exploited party they are simply the ones who match their morals with actions.
I think the idea is that the other creatures, like animals bred in captivity for their meat, are the ones which aren't protected. Vegans don't seem to speak for them (as say, a liberal might for a marginalized group while denying them their voice) rather use inductive reasoning to reflect contradictions in meat-eaters and their ethics in practice, particularly around ideas of self-oriented material interest.
If we use genocide as the mass slaughter of any life (we'll probably conveniently ignore microbes and only stick with multicellular life) rather than human life, animals bred for consumption (as well as those affected by humanity's effect on the environment) are deliberately genocided and it's done to some anticipation. The scale makes this far worse, other humans can be a meaningful threat and thus for the oppressor it is reasonable to eliminate them if their very existence poses a threat, as is the case in settler-colonial societies.
I don't know why you or others might treat non-human life differently than human life, and that is what I consider to be occurring. Feel free to disagree, I would be curious to read your thoughts as it's not a perspective I would say I understand. Three reasons for my prior comment which come to mind are 1. anthropocentrism, 2. lack of empathy and 3. solipsism. For the second there is a relevant quote which I think captures this well:
If instead of 'fellow men' you put 'fellow creature' I think you might understand where some of the arguments come from. Don't get me started on eugenics and how we are more or less perfecting it with plants and domesticated animals.
Can vegans please stop comparing minority groups to animals? Holy fuck stop being transphobic
Can carnists please stop engaging in bad-faith arguments? Holy fuck stop being speciesist
Vegans see animals as someones not somethings. Maybe take out the speciesist lenses that make solidarity look like transphobia.
That's rich coming from an ideologically pure antinatalist that contends that no one should have existed in the past and no one should exist in the future. What kind of leftist movement can even exist with that kind of clownishness?
wait this person is both an antinatalist & a carnist???? that… what the fuck?
I never liked that poster's takes to begin with, but yes, from now on, I hold the "until ideological purity can be attained with a magic consent-seeking pre-birth device, no one should ever be born again and also industrialized animal cruelty for the sake of treats is okay until that time" take maker and their takes as clownish and worthy of dismissal.
Weird how often the loudest anti-vegans also turn out to be anti-human too.