this post was submitted on 11 Feb 2024
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[–] sbv@sh.itjust.works 21 points 9 months ago (2 children)

In principle I agree, but the other poles are fucking with "us" though. Let's define "us" as the NATO-aligned countries.

India is offing political dissidents in Canada and the US (that's an honorable mention, since the US assassins were caught). China is setting up "police stations" in Western countries to intimidate ex-pats, not to mention the ongoing industrial espionage thing. Russia and North Korea seem to be conducting regular cyber attacks against NATO members (including civilian targets). And we've resigned ourselves to constant misinformation campaigns (+ election meddling) from Russia, China, and Iran.

If other poles follow the same gentleman's agreement, that works out. But I'm not sure how "we" can take the high road when other countries aren't.

[–] Fudoshin 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

To play devils advocate - the "gentlemans agreement" you speak of isn't perfect. The US was caught spying on Germany. I'm pretty sure the US & UK are only such tight allies because of shared intelligence gathering.

Also the US has shown twice (WWI & II) that allies are expendable until America is threatened directly.

[–] sbv@sh.itjust.works 1 points 9 months ago

the "gentlemans agreement" you speak of isn't perfect

That's what I'm trying to illustrate. The post that I'm replying to suggests that a multipolar world is fine, "we" should stay out of the other poles' spheres of influence, and that there's a hard distinction between economic, philosophical, and military jockeying. I don't think that's the case. The gentleman's agreement that I'm referring to would be between poles.

You bring up a great example how "we" fuck our allies even when we have a gentleman's agreement with them. Which is a great point.

Fuckery is going to happen: we need to keep our friends close, and we need to build our international agreements in a way that keeps us safe. Assuming other governments will adhere to rules-based order with siloed areas of competition is unlikely to succeed.