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Like Putin, Viktor Orbán is learning he can act with impunity: the cash keeps flowing | Katalin Cseh
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 17 Dec 2023
258 points (97.1% liked)
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It's almost as if the UK made a gigantic mistake by exiting itself from the EU.
Not that British influence could unfuck Hungarian politics, but it would have at least given them a larger degree of influence in the outcome.
Setting aside the legal issues around pushing Hungary out of the EU, I don't really understand the political value of them being allowed to remain - except maybe that forcing them out would upset Poland.
At least with Turkey and NATO, I understand the geostrategic importance e.g. Montreux Convention, forward operating bases, etc.
This isn't me saying there isn't a valid, or even vital, rationale for needing to keep Hungary in the EU, just me asking for someone knowledgeable to provide me with one.
To be extra clear, I'm not asking for answers on the legal path, or lack therefof, to involuntarily remove an EU member state, just the political rationale for NOT wanting Hungary kicked out, or suspended
I'd say the thought is that if Hungary falls out of the EU it will eventually become a vassal state to Putin. This would create a horrid mess greater than keeping it in the EU and trying to coax the Hungarian government more towards European values.
I don't buy that argument, at all.
Being a vassal of Putin would require Hungary"s standard of living to drop so dramatically, that even Orban couldn't get reelected.
And, if their standard of living did manage to drop that much while retaining Orban, there'd be even less reason to want to keep them within the EU.
The standard of living in Hungary has been constantly declining since orbán has been in power. His voter base is still going strong nonetheless, especially among the poorest. These people have no future, but also no present either - they'll vote for the name they hear the most often, or the one their employer tells them to. They being mostly jobless, that employer being the village mayor via the public works programme, and usually a puppet of orbán as well. Checkmate, liberal democracy.
There's a difference between a consistent gradual decline, and rapidly plummeting to a Belarusian standard of living - which would be a likely prerequisite for even the chance that a weakened Hungary could ever become a vassal state of Putin's Russia.
Hungary under Orban is already vassal state to Putin, though not fully. Well, he has his own "european values", putin type of values. He wants changes in EU, so for EU that's either take compromise route or shut them up route. He won't stop.
Pretty sure this could be solved in a similar way to handling versions of a duplicate computer file, name the old EU file as EUv1, copy contents of v1 to a new EU file, make amendments to EUv2 using ctrl+f to delete mentions of Hungary (or preferably ctrl+r to change Hungary to UK, maybe rename the EUv2 file to SovereingtyUnionV1 to appease the leave voters), then everyone just leaves EUv1.
The rules mean they can't force Hungary out, but Hungary can't stop everyone else leaving and forming a better club.
Of the all the responses that don't even really attempt to answer my actual question (political rationale for wanting Hungary to remain), this is by far, my favorite.
B- work, but grading on this post's curve bumps it up to A+.
With blackjack and hookers! Oh wait, we already have that... With more blackjack and hookers!
Geopolitics doesn't work that way.
Crtl+a, Del
Sure it does - it's exactly what happened with the League of Nations -> UN.
Uh...not quite. You skipped the step where they hit sudo rm -rf /* on the drive that, amongst other critical items, also contained the world_order.txt config file.