this post was submitted on 05 Dec 2023
1094 points (96.6% liked)

Memes

8399 readers
836 users here now

Post memes here.

A meme is an idea, behavior, or style that spreads by means of imitation from person to person within a culture and often carries symbolic meaning representing a particular phenomenon or theme.

An Internet meme or meme, is a cultural item that is spread via the Internet, often through social media platforms. The name is by the concept of memes proposed by Richard Dawkins in 1972. Internet memes can take various forms, such as images, videos, GIFs, and various other viral sensations.


Laittakaa meemejä tänne.

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Kerb@discuss.tchncs.de 58 points 11 months ago (2 children)

not just plastic bottles / containers,
we literally have teflon cookware

[–] drolex@sopuli.xyz 49 points 11 months ago (5 children)

Teflon cookware is mostly a non-issue during cooking because PTFE starts melting only at temperatures largely higher than cooking temperatures.

The problem is when it gets discarded and incinerated and it emits residues, and during its fabrication.

[–] Anticorp@lemmy.world 40 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (4 children)

The problem is when the surface gets damaged, which is always. Just throw away all of your Teflon and use cast iron pans. They're almost as easy to clean, and they don't have the same health risks. Sure, DuPont claims their new Teflon is safe, but they're the same company that knowingly lied about their first Teflon, fought in court about it for 30 years, and even bribed health authorities.

[–] LordKitsuna@lemmy.world 26 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

I feel like people that recommend cast iron as an alternative are misunderstanding the entire reason Teflon became popular in the first place. I ain't got time to learn a secret ritual dance of how to season My Pan. That being said, I just use stainless steel and I've learned how to use it properly so that it doesn't just stick to everything.

As long as you properly preheat your stainless steel you will have little issue with sticking, there's a neat little trick someone taught me splash some water on your pan if it stays in place and Bubbles it's not ready yet but if it starts dancing around the pan you can use it and it won't stick

[–] Anticorp@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

LOL. It can seem daunting at first, but it's really quite simple. Once a pan is seasoned then just using it with oil, cleaning it with water, and drying it properly keeps it going strong for years. We clean ours with water and a scrub brush, dry it, put it on the burner on medium heat to evaporate any remaining water, and then spread a little oil around the pan with a napkin. Then I turn the burner off and let it sit there until it cools. The oil continues curing while the pan stays hot and maintains the seasoning layer. The whole process only takes a couple of minutes. We do have stainless pans too, but we usually reach for the cast iron or carbon steel pans, unless we're boiling water, or making tomato based sauces.

[–] XbSuper@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

There's no actual need to season a cast iron if you don't want to. Regular use of it will cause it to become seasoned over time. It just means everything will stick to it until such a time as the season takes.

[–] SeekPie@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago

Or at first just use more oil

[–] oodarthvader@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Cast iron isn't completely without risk. The iron from the pan can leach into food which can be a problem for people with high iron issues. On the flip side people with anemia could see some benefit. My personal favorite as someone with hemachromatosis is enameled cast iron.

[–] Anticorp@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

A properly seasoned cast iron pan has a layer in-between the food and iron. But those layers do get damaged & worn, and you can definitely end up with your food in contact with the iron like you said. I have an enameled dutch oven, and it's pretty great, but not as easy to clean as the regular cast iron, and definitely not non-stick.

[–] Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world 11 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The seasoning layer prevents massive amounts of iron from leeching but seasoned pans still add iron.

Medical journals all say you get significant iron from seasoned cast iron.

The only source that doesn't agree is America's test kitchen. They say "only a few mg" which would still be a significant percentage of dietary requirements.

Unless you have a medical problem, this is a good thing.

[–] Anticorp@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

Yeah, we've been using cast iron pans since we saw the movie Deep Waters about the DuPont conspiracy several years ago. I just donated blood a couple of weeks ago and they test your iron before you can donate. My iron levels were perfectly normal. So whatever it does, it's totally fine.

[–] Auzymundius@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Or try carbon steel pans. Very similar to cast iron, but much lighter.

[–] Anticorp@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago

We have a 13" carbon steel pan. It is usually my go-to pan. They're a lot pricier though, which is why I usually just recommend cast iron. People usually need to be pretty invested in their kitchen to consider carbon steel pans. My cast iron pans were like $10 each. My carbon steel pan was $75. They were half that price a couple of years ago, but they really bumped up the price after America's Test Kitchen released a review about them.

[–] EatYouWell@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

I just have regular stainless steel.

Pour water and soap in it when you're done cooking and it's easy to clean by the time you're done eating.

You also don't have to worry about messing up a coating.

[–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The problem is when the surface gets damaged

What do you mean?

[–] Anticorp@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

When the Teflon gets scratched then it starts leeching toxins into your food.

[–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 4 points 11 months ago (13 children)

Where did you read this? What I've read has said the opposite. Here's one result for "teflon flakes"

When cooking, flakes of Teflon can break off into food. If these flakes are ingested, it is considered non-toxic.

If metal utensils are used with Teflon coated cookware, small pieces of Teflon can break off and get into the food. This is considered non-toxic. When swallowed, these pieces will travel through the intestines and come out in the stool intact without causing harm to the body.

https://missouripoisoncenter.org/is-this-a-poison/teflon

load more comments (13 replies)
[–] Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone 23 points 11 months ago (2 children)

No way it doesn't degrade and emit PFAS occasionally during normal use. There's a reason nobody who keeps birds will keep that shit in their house.

The risk:reward ratio is so skewed it's stupid.

Risk: if you heat it slightly too much a class of chemicals literally called "forever chemicals" because of how long they stay in the body will enter your lungs and your food

Reward: food no sticky

[–] BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world 12 points 11 months ago (2 children)

There’s a reason nobody who keeps birds will keep that shit in their house

For those of us that have no clue what this quote it about, what is the reason that nobody with a bird will have teflon in their house at the same time?

[–] Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone 18 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Sorry, I forget not everyone else is a bird person. Teflon is notorious for making pet birds drop dead without warning during normal use. It's very 'canary in the coal mine.'

[–] BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Wow, that's nuts. I did not know that. It really makes it sound like teflon is terrible for us.

Sad fact: During the 2003 Invasion of Iraq, the the US command at the front lines had a pigeon in a cage with them at all times. If the pigeon were to die, that would mean that there was a gas attack and troops needed to don their gas masks.

Why is it that birds in particular are so sensitive to aerial pollutants (is that the right term)?

[–] zalgotext@sh.itjust.works 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Why is it that birds in particular are so sensitive to aerial pollutants (is that the right term)?

They have a higher rate of respiratory exchange than large mammals like humans, which means any harmful stuff in the air gets into their system faster.

[–] BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

Interesting! Thanks for letting me know.

[–] nymwit@lemm.ee 7 points 11 months ago

the "teflon fumes" for lack of a better term are extremely toxic to birds

[–] nymwit@lemm.ee 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

to pick a nit and to highlight the other-than-poisoning-you aspect: they're forever chemicals because they don't break down naturally anywhere, not just your body. Wait...an idea: throw those pans into a volcano!

[–] Imacat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Ever seen a well used Teflon pan that wasn’t scratched or chipped? All of that goes into your food.

[–] drolex@sopuli.xyz 18 points 11 months ago (1 children)

OK but PTFE itself is not carcinogenic or harmful from what I remember. Only when it starts deteriorating at high temperatures does it release harmful components. So eating your Teflon pan isn't supposed to be that bad.

https://www.cancercenter.com/community/blog/2021/09/does-teflon-cause-cancer

[–] Imacat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 11 months ago (2 children)

It’s not known to be harmful or carcinogenic. Doesn’t mean it isn’t. It’s hard to identify correlation between exposure and harm for something that we’re nearly all exposed to especially if the level of harm is low.

Companies have also been known to harass and silence researchers who show their products are harmful. I don’t see a reason to trust that PTFE is safe to eat when I have the option to just not eat it.

[–] drolex@sopuli.xyz 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Sure but you can apply this logic to anything: copper, cast iron, enamel, nickel used for stainless steel... Where do you stop?

[–] Imacat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Copper and iron are essential elements in human biology. Enamel coatings need to be thrown out once they start chipping. Nickel isn’t great but in my experience stainless steel pans barely shed any material after years of use.

I stop at manufactured polymers. Particularly when they’re used in applications where they fall apart into our food and the environment where they’re going to last millions of years.

[–] drolex@sopuli.xyz 2 points 11 months ago
[–] gens@programming.dev 3 points 11 months ago
[–] zalgotext@sh.itjust.works 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Teflon-coated pans start giving off harmful gasses at around 400°F, temperatures you're going to exceed on the stovetop if you're doing pretty much anything other than boiling water.

[–] drolex@sopuli.xyz 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

If you had a source for that, I'd be glad to read it and take it into account next time this topic is raised!

[–] zalgotext@sh.itjust.works 1 points 11 months ago

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytetrafluoroethylene#Safety

I misread, it's around 500°F where it poses health risks. Even still, 500°F is still a very achievable temperature in most kitchens.

[–] DroneRights@lemm.ee 3 points 11 months ago (2 children)

How hot is 400 slavery units?

[–] Schorsch@feddit.de 3 points 11 months ago

It's just above 200°C, so It's easily reachable with a regular cooktop.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Daefsdeda@sh.itjust.works 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

My current research is about pfas and how bad it is. You wanna know yhe most fun part? It probably is in your drinking water. Current testing methods are only for specific compounds and many manufacturers just use a slightly different chemical structure, whose effects can be the same in a biological system...

[–] grandkaiser@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Can you share the negative health effects of ptfe consumption? I would have assumed that it would be inert in humans considering it's extraordinarily inert properties. Obviously it breaks down at temperatures over 315c, but that's not really relevant with ptfe in the water.

[–] jabathekek@sopuli.xyz 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

It doesn't seem to be the PTFE themselves, it's the molecules released when it eventually degrades due to fire, time or mechanical force; particularly PFOAs, which were at one point so widely used you can now find them everywhere. As well, they are still used to manufacture non-stick pans, just at an earlier step in the process so they are still present, but at 'safe' levels; however, if a non-stick pan is overheated, the coating almost instantly breaks down and releases unsafe levels of PFOA after that event.

Purchasing non-stick cookware is supporting companies that create, ship, and use PFOA which further degrades the environment and contaminates water.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfluoroalkyl_carboxylic_acids

Schlummer, M., Sölch, C., Meisel, T., Still, M., Gruber, L., & Wolz, G. (2015). Emission of perfluoroalkyl carboxylic acids (PFCA) from heated surfaces made of polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE) applied in food contact materials and consumer products. Chemosphere, 129, 46-53. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.chemosphere.2014.11.036

[–] Daefsdeda@sh.itjust.works 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

My research is currently with pfoa and its ability to interfere with ttr proteins ability to transport t4 and t3. If you need a source just google pfoa calux.

[–] jabathekek@sopuli.xyz 2 points 11 months ago

Thanks for your work. (☞ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)☞