this post was submitted on 30 Jun 2023
131 points (96.5% liked)

News

23367 readers
3230 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil


Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.


2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.


Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.


3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.


Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.


4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.


Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.


5. Only recent news is allowed.


Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.


6. All posts must be news articles.


No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.


7. No duplicate posts.


If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.


8. Misinformation is prohibited.


Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.


9. No link shorteners.


The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.


10. Don't copy entire article in your post body


For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] afraid_of_zombies2@lemmy.world -3 points 1 year ago (1 children)
  1. Not true. The executive branch has the power to not collect a tax or debt. Don't like it? Then vote for a law change. Good luck with that since this has been the case since before the US even started. In fact what is now the UK waived the land tax on the colonies. It says a lot that to even get standing they had to legally force a corporation to claim damages.

  2. Even if true who cares? Governments serve the population ideally. Would you rather they didn't give people what they want so things are "fair"? Plus I seriously doubt you were protesting when the banks were bailed out, or the airlines, or the farms, or the banks, or the "small" business owners, or the insurance companies, or the car makers.

  3. When a patient is bleading out you don't give them a lecture on the importance of safety. You stop the bleeding. ER doctors are not useless because they don't address root causes.

  4. Again. Congress authorizes the collection of taxes and debt they do not collect. Giving permission is not the same as an order to perform.

You know I used to be a test engineer which means I was lied to about 30% of my day by PMs who wanted to push things out. A trick I figured out pretty early. When someone is telling me the truth they only need one reason. When they know that they are wrong they give me multiple weak arguments.

[–] No1@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

None of what you said is accurate or good arguments.

  1. You're wrong in this instance, but a lot of people who have votes to gain have been saying this, so I understand why you think that.

The people saying that the President is allowed to wipe out student loans broadly are based on a misreading of the Higher Education Act of 1965 at 20 USC 1082(a)(6) . https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title31/subtitle2/chapter13&edition=prelim

The mentioned part of that act provides the provides the president (via the Secretary of Education) with the authority to:

“...modify, compromise, waive, or release any right, title, claim, lien, or demand, however acquired, including any equity or any right of redemption.”

But that quote is taken out of the broader context of the act. The preamble to that section limits the authority to operating within the scope of the statute.

It means that Congress can authorize a loan forgiveness program, (see Public Service Loan Forgiveness, Teacher Loan Forgiveness or the Total and Permanent Disability Discharge), which then means the U.S. Secretary of Education can forgive student loans as authorized under the terms of those programs.

Without authorization by Congress of a specific loan forgiveness program, the President does not have the authority to forgive student loan debt. The Supreme Court unanimously decided that all the way back in 2001 in Whitman v. American Trucking Assns., Inc. when they put limits on what exactly Congress can delegate to the executive branch.

Also, the part of the Act referred to in the preamble is Part B of Title IV of the Higher Education Act of 1965, which applies only to loans made under the Federal Family Education Loan (FFEL) program.

There is similar language in Part E for the Federal Perkins Loan program. There is no similar language for Part D for the William D. Ford Federal Direct Loan (Direct Loan) program.

  1. I was protesting when the banks were bailed out. I was also protesting the business "loans" being forgiven. Attacking someone's argument by building a strawman of who you want the others reading this to believe they are is a logical fallacy.

  2. My point is exactly this. We're treating a ruptured appendix with Advil.

  3. See point 1.

[–] afraid_of_zombies2@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)
  1. Still wrong. All enforcement of a tax is on the executive. Congress can not force the executive branch to enforce a tax.

  2. Doubt.

  3. I had my appendix out. OTC painkillers were an active part of the process. Sorry your analogy disproves your point.

  4. I won't. Address it.

[–] No1@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

First off, this isn't a tax going uncollected. The president can't say 'This thing I want to do is going to now be considered a tax so I can now not collect it." At this point, it's clear you're not engaging in good faith, as you're falling straight back to using character attacks rather than arguments, so have a nice day.

First off it is. It is exactly a tax. Just because the US government has tried to hire tax farmers to enforce it doesn't make it not a tax. The president doesn't have to say anything. There is no mechanism in the legal system to force a president to collect a tax.

And at this point it is clear that you are trying to substitute virtue signaling for economic policy. And yes I seriously doubt you protested any other form of government bailout. I would wish you good day but I care about the truth.