I'm not sure how much is really genetics vs behavior/environment. I'm a night owl too, if I can on weekends I'm up till after midnight or into the early hours. But that's because I'm playing games, sit in front of PC displays, look at my phone and so on (and still feel like shit the next day obviously, no matter how long I sleep).

But if I force myself to go to bed early a few days in a row, which I've only done a few times so far, I suddenly wake up a minute before my alarm goes off, even early in the morning.

So I'm not sure if there's actually so many night owls around, or if this is just an issue of not moving enough and having artificial light sources all around you in the evening (with plenty of screen usage). To get up early in the morning you have to go into bed early, it doesn't work otherwise. And to go to bed early you have to stick to a schedule, otherwise it's like jet lag, if I go to bed every day after midnight then obviously I'll have a difficult time falling asleep at 10 p.m. the one time I actually try to.

[–] braxy29@lemmy.world 30 points 1 year ago (2 children)

the biology of sleep is more complicated than "just go to bed earlier."

[–] Facelikeapotato@lemmy.ml 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

If I go to sleep early, I just lie there until it's my usual sleep time. My body is very stubborn about it.

[–] dragonflyteaparty@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

Even if I'm exhausted it works that way without sleep aids.

[–] royal_starfish@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

I could actually "feel" my body turning off but then I notice it and move which makes me fully awake again and I have to wait for myself to fall asleep again

[–] Cryophilia@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

Fuckin morning people always do this. "I know, I know, everything you're saying makes logical sense, but listen, just hear me out on this...maybe...you're just lazy"

[–] Lightor@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

This idea that you can change anything about yourself with enough diet, exercise, and will power totally ignores all the science saying some of this is just genetics/biology. You don't have to wonder how much of it is genetics, there are studies.

Yes, some people are just lazy, for sure. But there are some people who will work 12 hour days, no problem, they just don't want to get up early, it's hard for them. That's not lazy, that's just being different. It would be like telling someone they need to sleep from 9pm to 11am and if you can't you just need to try harder. There is nuance.

[–] SpiderShoeCult@sopuli.xyz 3 points 1 year ago

I also manage to wake up before my alarm clock with 1-30 minutes (achieved via programming), with alarm times varying from 5.30 am to 7 am depending on what needs doing that day, but it's still physically painful and mentally unpleasant. I'm basically running on autopilot until about noon. Oddly enough, if I manage to get a decent amount of sleep and wake up at something like 2 am, it's awesome, but falling asleep at 5-6 in the afternoon is slightly difficult.

I cannot remember a single instance in my whole life when I woke up in the morning and thought 'heh, fully rested and full of energy. what a wonderful morning!'. I cannot understand people able to get up earlier and do stuff like go running, before work. Hell, I shower at night to save time in the morning (and because getting into bed full of day-stuff is just icky). Going on holidays is also mildly unpleasant because hotels usually offer breakfast up to 10 am (11 in the weekend). I wish they'd offer brunch as well.

[–] Vlyn@lemmy.zip -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Absolutely, but most of the time humans are very very similar. For example take the whole "fast metabolism" crap, the real difference is like 100-150 kcal a day. That's one slice of toast pretty much.

If you look at the past we didn't have (much) artificial light. Humans were up during sunlight and went to bed when it got dark. With an hour or two of fucking in the middle of the night before sleeping again.

Just based on biology it makes zero sense for someone to be a pure night owl (as in being mostly awake at night). A few hours of time shift? Sure, I can see that. But our main problem is modern living, artificial lights, too much stimulation in the evening, not enough movement, ..

If you cut someone off from all artificial light I'd bet you they'd go to bed earlier on their own.

[–] Lightor@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Wait, you're saying that the well studied topic of some people being night owls makes 0 sense? I mean all other anecdotal statements aside, it's been studied. They have even narrowed it to its cause.

https://www.rockefeller.edu/news/19066-study-identifies-night-owl-gene-variant/

[–] Vlyn@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 year ago

I'm not saying they don't exist, I'm saying that there's plenty of people who aren't genetically night owls, but still stay up late due to a modern lifestyle and then claim they are night owls.

Our modern sleeping schedules are fucked between artificial light, caffeine, stress, day rythms based on a clock and not daylight, 24/7 entertainment and stimuli, ..

So just because someone tends to stay up late doesn't mean they're a genuine night owl.

[–] Sunfoil@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

I was in the Army and getting up early is the thing. Up at 0530 every morning. It was very difficult for me and I had to put a lot of effort into discipline and routine to not die of sleep deprivation. I'm a massive night owl, 0300 every night if I could. It's definitely a component of genetics not just environment. I agree though, most people are strung out on caffeine, staring at their unfiltered computer screens at 0200 after not doing any exercise that week and wondering why they have sleep problems. Diet, light, and exercise have a massive impact on sleep.