this post was submitted on 30 Jan 2025
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[–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 10 points 7 hours ago (3 children)

The data shows the helicopter well above the maximum altitude - 350 feet instead of 200. I don’t think the staffing was the problem.

[–] catloaf@lemm.ee 14 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Another pair of eyes might have caught it and called out "hey fuckass, this helo is getting too close, go around". One person managing too much means they miss things.

[–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 11 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Someone did tell the Blackhawk to pass behind the plane prior to the collision. The helo pilots probably thought they were talking about another plane in the airspace, which is always very crowded.

[–] catloaf@lemm.ee 6 points 5 hours ago

Yeah, and the other pair of eyes might have noticed them not doing that.

[–] lefaucet@slrpnk.net 1 points 3 hours ago

I heard on Democracy Now that communications done to helicopters and communications to planes are typically done by separate individuals. The communicating to both aircrafts involved in the collision was one person.

In light of the information you've provided I think it should be said, staffing wasn't the only problem.

So often tragedies happen for multiple small reasons that each alone would not cause an accident.

[–] tal@lemmy.today 6 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

That may well be one thing that's wrong, but I'm going to guess that normally, one still wouldn't have a regional jet flying directly over a helicopter with just 150 feet of vertical separation.

EDIT: I was waiting to see if VASAviation -- a YouTube channel that puts up ATC radio recordings -- would put up logs for this one. Looks like they have; three separate videos.

EDIT2: Might be more analysis going on on news or aviation sites, but as per the recordings, the helicopter was notified about the plane, said that they had the plane in sight and had requested and was granted clearance for visual separation with it. My understanding is that that places some level of responsibility on the pilot:

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/atc_html/chap7_section_2.html

Pilot-applied visual separation.

Maintain communication with at least one of the aircraft involved and ensure there is an ability to communicate with the other aircraft.
The pilot sees another aircraft and is instructed to maintain visual separation from the aircraft as follows:

Tell the pilot about the other aircraft. Include position, direction, type, and, unless it is obvious, the other aircraft's intention.
Obtain acknowledgment from the pilot that the other aircraft is in sight.
Instruct the pilot to maintain visual separation from that aircraft.

If the pilot reports the traffic in sight and will maintain visual separation from it (the pilot must state both), the controller may “approve” the operation instead of restating the instructions.

If aircraft are on converging courses, inform the other aircraft of the traffic and that visual separation is being applied.

I don't think that the above happened in the recording.

Advise the pilots if the targets appear likely to merge.

I don't think that that happened (at least, not explicitly, though there were multiple transmissions to the helicopter about the plane; I don't know if there's specific terminology that has to be used).