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IMPORTANT SITE REMINDERS ARE LISTED AFTER THIS RANT (so please read all of it in order to find the rules >:3)
On this mega I shall take the opportunity to rant about one of my favorite things: the Webnovel UNJUST DEPTHS!
Do you love transgenders?
Do you love communism?
Do you love queer romance?
Do you love killing fascists in a giant fucking mech?
Would a plotline with all of these things happening in a underwater retro-futuristic gundam setting intrigue you?
Especially if its actually really well written with good characters, rich worldbuilding, and a marxist leninist transfem author?
All of the answers should be: YES I DO ~~or else I WILL BAN YOU~~
Since you obviously love all of those things then Unjust Depths is perfect for YOU yes YOU! It is DESTINY
The Imbrian Ocean is at a time of severe instability. The monarch of the vast Empire that spans its unjust depths (:3) is sick and nearing death, every territory of the ocean now vying to carve their own Destiny out of the chaos. From the Volk fascists 
, Zionists 
(they literally will not die why are they still here oh my god), The 'Anarchists' (social chauvanists) 
in Bosporus, and the monarchs 
of each vast noble domain, each vies for power and prestige no matter who they crush underfoot, but it would be a pretty depressing story without a bright light in the dark.
On the edge of the Empire sits the glorious Union! The (Soviet) Union 
is a socialist federation of three states (and one anarchist mountain 
)that were formerly slave colonies under the Imbrian Empire until they broke away in a fierce liberation war. They have spent the last 20 years since then building themselves up. Whether they be Human 
, Shimmi 
(Catgirls who usually follow a religion closely related to modern Islam), and Kattaran 
(a hybrid humanoid species with characteristics of sea life ranging from sharks to cuttlefish)building socialism side by side.
First lead under the revolutionary leader Dashka Kansal, then the Idealist Ahwalia who lead the country to near ruin in pursuit of building a utopia on pillars of sand, then under the scientific socialist 
leadership of the Grand Marshall of the Union, Bhavani Jayanskar (I love Jayanskar so much shes basically as if Stalin, Lenin, and Zhukov were rolled into the same person but was a black lesbian badass who wore the uniform REALLY WELL)(she aint the main character at all tho shes only in very few scenes i just love her so much). Under Jayanskar, the Union has been growing their economy to both eliminate hunger and give everyone a home 
, but also growing their military capabilities for the inevitable return of the Empire. The Union is alone, but with the people by its side nothing, not even Destiny, can snuff out true freedoms light. 
As war wages between the Empire and Republic (basically underwater USA) once more over the lands between them, the facade begins to finally crack...
And a border conflict between the Empire and Union escalate, and the dreaded reconquest begins.
Amidst this turmoil, lives our main characters (yes there are multiple and all of them are lovely). Each of whom I personally love dearly, and are very well characterized. Many are soldiers of the Union, some are scientists, some are divers (mech pilots), some are lost strands finding new meaning after joining this band of Brigands
All are Communists 
All serve the Union 
All would gladly give their lives to defending socialism 
but even they would have little inkling of the adventure set in store for them as the lands beneath the waves erupt in fire, fury, and revolt
Can these transgender badasses kick fascist ass?
Can they kiss? (oh my god please kiss ISTG THERE IS SO MUCH SHIPPING AHHHH ITS GLORIOUS)
FIND OUT HERE: https://unjustdepths.com/
please do or else I will pout incessantly
just try it pleeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase i need to talk to someone about it after Cromalin went AFK
(I miss her, she was a real one)
REALLY IMPORTANT RULES BELOW, MUST READ
Join our public Matrix server! https://matrix.to/#/#tracha:chapo.chat
As a reminder, be sure to properly give content warnings and put sensitive subjects behind proper spoiler tags. It's for the mental health of not just your comrades, but yourself as well.
Here is a screenshot of where to find the spoiler button.
Some thoughts on Nevada part 2.
spoilers ofc
The ending. I personally loved the ending, and there's a very specific reason why.Imogen Binnie talks about how, when she was writing + editing + publishing Nevada, she was very frustrated with the stories about trans people that were being published at the time by cis authors. Stories where a tortured trans protagonist goes through hell during transition but ultimately emerges victorious and transitioned. The "Gender Novel(tm)", as Casey Plett put it. I've personally never read any of these books, and I'm not too interested in doing so; but the trend seems indicative of something that I think about sometimes: liberals are obsessed with endings.
The end of history (lol), the end of racism (lmao even), the end of COVID (how do they come up with this stuff), and β the end of transition. In the afterword, Binnie talks about how she purposefully wrote Maria to be a "post-trans" protagonist, to disrupt the idea that trans people take hormones, get surgery, and happily disappear, their lives as trans people effectively over, ready to live as cis people. The idea that the Gender Novel (tm) was pushing. That there is a set "end point" to transition. Maria is clearly still struggling, still wrestling with her issues around dissociation, dysphoria, and transness.
That's why I like Nevada's ending so much. The fact that it doesn't end, that Maria and James' storylines don't get wrapped up with any kind of satisfactory conclusion. Because for a lot of trans people, it doesn't really end; at least, not nicely and neatly. It unsettles cis liberal sensibilities, cis liberal desires for a conclusion to the struggle. And well, upsetting liberals is my favorite thing.
Another (unrelated) thought β in class, the topic of James' pronouns came up. At first my answer was "well idk, I don't think it's that serious", but then I thought a little bit more about it, and I think I came to a different conclusion.
The entire second part of Nevada is basically a long, drawn-out "what-if" scenario for a lot of trans people. For people in James' position, it's "what if a magical trans person descended from the sky to talk to me about my gender issues"; for people in Maria's position, it's "what if I met someone who is probably trans, and how could I help them?"
I think there's a strong aspect of asking: what would you, the reader, do in this situation? What would you say to James, if you were in Maria's position? Was Maria's method effective? Is there any way she could have done it better? I guess this is the question the "egg prime directive" was trying to solve, lol. I wonder how soon that appeared after Nevada's publication. (For the record, I personally don't believe in the egg prime directive. But I did bring it up in class when the discussion touched on this subject, because I'm annoying and internet-poisoned like that.)
And along with that, there's this question hanging in the air β what pronouns? Maria uses she/her in her head, but well, maybe Maria wasn't the best at this. Binnie uses he/him. I think this part of the story is written to unsettle people, to unsettle cis people but also trans people too.
Orange Book My Beloved
You referenced Casey Plett when talkin bout NevadaI forget where I saw it but I did see someone write an article or something about how Nevada is part of a broader trend of queer people telling their own stories often by shirking the narrative conventions of western, predominantly masculine storytelling and such. All that shit, y'know, culturally enshrined stuff like Maria says about James' stupid movies. I'm pretty happy with this and the majority of trans litfic does ardently refuse to have a neat ending which is very cute. Alsl
This is funny to me because Nevada and its goofy lil gay ilk have completely and totally overwritten these things. I can think of maybe like, Luna by Julie Ann Peters? Ash by Malinda Lo or Being Emily by Rachel Gold are not written by cis people, so. I've had extreme difficulty trying to track trans protagonists in novels prior to Nevada existing. It's like the whole set disappeared, lol lmao. Nevada is so based for upsetting cis liberals though.
This burns in my brain constantly and always has, it burns brighter ever since people have started saying "waow" when I tell them how long I've been socially transitioned. There's a lot in asking exactly how hard to push, although Maria clearly sucks badly at it. She needs to help herself before anyone else, evidently. Also she should have known her kinks first, lmao.
Really? Never really bugged me, Idk. You can't decide people's pronouns ofc. I do find it pretty funny that Maria basically ascribes James a gender identity without really considering that James is his own person. She pays internal lip service to the fact that he might reach a different conclusion, but she basically does "just like me fr fr" at him and decides he is a trans woman. She talks about getting him hormones and shit. I find it kinda funny, she's such a narrow-view dork. Consider: did James freak out about all of this because the specific gender assumptions Maria made about him were wrong? Would he have been less freaked out if it didn't seem like she was gonna forcefemme him for fun??
when the book is orange!
Haha, my professor assigned us Plett's article "Rise of the Gender Novel" as one of our first class readings, so that's why I brought it up. Plett goes into her idea of the Gender Novel(tm) more in that article. Actually, when we were having an in-class discussion over that article, that was when I first brought up the liberal obsession with endings; I liked that I got to tie our class discussion today back to that one. I like doing little things like that.
I mean I think this isn't limited to trans litfic, though I haven't done enough fiction reading in recent years to be able to definitively say. I personally think Nevada's ending is perfect, but I know that there are some people who don't love it (including some people in my class)
There's literally a passage in the book where Maria talks about trying to help James as a vehicle for helping herself. Maria...
I use he/him pronouns for James because Binnie does. I mean, maybe Maria did come on too strong. But this feels like reaching into a pot of weird tumblr discourse (why was "egg discourse" a thing oh my god) so honestly I don't know if I'll personally reach a good conclusion.
Special and Unique Cover
Oh how did I not know this was a thing? Oh: Moving Forward, Middlesex, For Today... Annabel. Oh god that's a LOT OF PSYCHIC DAMAGE
Oh my god I hate Annabel so fucking much. Why does Plett have to be canadian and bring up my nightmares? Uh can we talk about this article because I know these. My english teacher recommended me Middlesex and Annabel. Lol, lmao. I find it interesting that aside Middlesex, these books are pretty contemporary to Nevada et al. This article is hilarious, I think Casey Plett might be a genius.
Oh, yeah, uh see this is what you were talkin about, I'm p sure. What I meant too, lol.
Uh maybe I have read this and I just forgor... This is probably where I saw all this, 'cause I remember about that memoir being mentioned.
I don't actually recognise all of these names.
I must observe
That is a good discussion tie-in though, nice.
Uh yeah you're right, you have Mostly Dead Things or fuck, Your Driver Is Waiting, it is a broader litfic thing, I guess nobody had written a trans litfic yet. I sure do get tunnelvision with these things... Hilariously enough people here and in trachat have said about being surprised by the ending, which feels deeply nostalgic to me.
Yeah I do too, always have. Should I have been using other ones? I guess it's not that important why he flipped out but this book makes me stir like that
i heard they named a state after this
Maybe next time you encounter Casey Plett, before you drop the spaghetti, you can ask her for her opinions on Annabel and Middlesex
I've never read Casey Plett, I wonder if this article is indicative of her fiction writing style or if it's very different... anyways I enjoyed it a lot too. I don't really intend to read any of the Gender Novels(tm) she mentions... actually maybe I'll try one of them, just to see what they're like, lol. But I already have a reading list that's way too long, so crappy books from cis authors about trans people will have to wait.
Yeah, there's an element of nostalgia in it for me too. Idk, even outside the context of The Ending Fits The Purpose Of The Novel, I like the ending because I've always liked bittersweet non-conclusions where the characters move on and nothing substantially changes. There's just something about them that works for me.
I mean, I didn't really think about it until my class brought it up... so idk.
fabulous bit
Uh she hates them, she has to, I mean her article feels very dim and unimpressed about them. Plus I don't know if I can get along with anybody who likes Annabel. It is so bad I didn't even develop a mythos and subgenre and evolutionary line for it, smh.
I've never read Casey Plett,
Ooh ooh ooh, me!!! I have read her short Other Women (from 2012's The Collection) and also Little Fish. Little Fish in particular is a pretty fucking sombre book, although it's not really sad per se. Maybe I'm just reading her article super weird, Idk. Autism humour. I do like Little Fish fwiw, but the ex-Mormon stuff was kind of beyond me. I support keeping crappy cis-written books off your to-read, I mean some cis authors even write trans protagonists pretty okay, could read those first, lol
Oh waow, imagine having actual taste, could not be me. Nevada was my intro to the concept, it took me a while to grapple with the idea of a story that just cuts like this. I did come around to it though, I mean it's not that hard to parse, the state of the characters at the end of it tell you what you need to know about where it ended. It's like a lil media literacy test!
Me either, it's such an odd topic. Idk, using pronouns for someone that they explicitly do not use seems weird. Not in an egg-directive way, but in a this-does-not-represent-this-persons-current-identity way. You can argue over how much it matters for fictional characters but for me, Idk. Unless it's those bad anime where they do the four-letter-t-slur thing, at that point it's an aspect of reclaiming a character for trans rep, like Bridget or smth.
I liked the ending too, it goes against the happy ending trope that a load of people need. It's also a reminder that people aren't always ready to accept being trans and it can take time to come to terms plus the rejection at the end I thought realistic. Life isn't a fairy tale where your trans fairy godmother can cone crashing in to fix someone who is struggling with their gender/identity/place in life. These things can take a more gentler hand than what Maria has and is willing to give
As Ash has said she just tries to railroad this egg she's found to basically just be like her without considering (seriously) that James H could be conflicted about being transfem or any other gender/identity. Maybe he's non binary who knows?
I think if she had of let it sink in, offer the trip but let James H make the decision himself. Maybe go sort herself out first and tell James to call her when he's ready or wants to hang later.
I would ascribe pronouns to what people want used. He hasn't fully cracked yet so..
spoiler If there was ever a sequel I would want it to open with James at a gas station, goes in to get something and comes back to his car, starts rummaging through his glove box for a tape to have the sound of a revolver cocking and to turn round to see Maria on the back seat who says "Remeber me fucker, where's my heroin?" :::