this post was submitted on 29 Jul 2024
1237 points (99.6% liked)

News

23259 readers
3276 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil


Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.


2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.


Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.


3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.


Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.


4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.


Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.


5. Only recent news is allowed.


Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.


6. All posts must be news articles.


No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.


7. No duplicate posts.


If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.


8. Misinformation is prohibited.


Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.


9. No link shorteners.


The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.


10. Don't copy entire article in your post body


For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

President also says presidential immunity for crimes should be removed and ethics rules for justices should be stricter

Joe Biden has called for a series of reforms to the US Supreme Court, including the introduction of term limits for justices and a constitutional amendment to remove immunity for crimes committed by a president while in office.

In an op-ed published on Monday morning, the president said justices should be limited to a maximum of 18 years’ service on the court rather than the current lifetime appointment, and also said ethics rules should be strengthened to regulate justices’ behavior.

The call for reform comes after the supreme court ruled in early July that former presidents have some degree of immunity from prosecution, a decision that served as a major victory for Donald Trump amid his legal travails.

“This nation was founded on a simple yet profound principle: No one is above the law. Not the president of the United States. Not a justice on the Supreme Court of the United States,” Biden wrote.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Sam_Bass@lemmy.world 19 points 3 months ago (3 children)

Term limits should be 6 years or less. 18 is just too much to allow for

[–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 75 points 3 months ago (2 children)

18 years requires that the entire Court takes 3-6 administrations to swap out, and is the shortest term in which a single President can't replace a majority of the justices.

With 6-year SCOTUS terms a 2-term President can select 100% of the justices on the Court, and would have a majority in their first term. It would completely remove the check against the Executive.

[–] jballs@sh.itjust.works 28 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Yeah, at the proposed rate the court would be comprised of:

  • 1 justice appointed by Bush Jr
  • 4 justices appointed by Obama
  • 2 justices appointed by Trump
  • 2 justices appointed by Biden

So you'd have a 6-3 liberal leaning court. Which makes sense since Democrats have held the presidency for 12 of the last 18 years.

[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 2 points 3 months ago (2 children)

That's assuming it isn't gamed. If your time is running out and your party is losing power soon, you can step down and let the president of your choice appoint a new justice.

[–] jballs@sh.itjust.works 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I imagine they'd have to flush out all the exact scenarios, the biggest problem being the existing justices. I'd imagine you'd have to do something like this, assuming the bill took place immediately.

  • Thomas - Joined the court in 1991, almost 33 years ago - Out immediately, serving 15 years longer than normal, Biden chooses replacement.
  • Roberts - Joined the court in 2005, almost 19 years ago - Out in 2026, serving 21 years, 3 longer than normal, Harris chooses replacement.
  • Alito - Joined the court in 2006, almost 18 years ago - Out in 2028, serving 22 years, 4 longer than normal, Harris chooses replacement.
  • Sotomayor - Joined the court in 2009, almost 15 years ago - Out in 2030, serving 21 years, 3 longer than normal, Harris chooses replacement.
  • Kagan - Joined the court in 2010, almost 14 years ago - Out in 2032, serving 22 years, 4 longer than normal, Harris chooses replacement.
  • Gorsuch - Joined the court in 2017, over 7 years ago - Out in 2034, serving 17 years, 1 year shorter than normal, next president chooses replacement.
  • Kavanaugh - Joined the court in 2018, almost 6 years ago - Out in 2036, serving 18 years, which is the new normal, next president chooses replacement.
  • Barrett - Joined the court in 2020, almost 4 years ago - Out in 2038, serving 18 years, which is the normal, next president chooses replacement.
  • Jackson - Joined the court in 2022, over 2 years ago - Out in 2040, serving 18 years, which is the new normal, next president chooses replacement.

Honestly, looking at it written out it seems really good. Obviously the older court members are the ones that will have stuck around longer than the 18 years. Under the schedule, Gorsuch is the only one who doesn't get the full 18 years, which is fitting since he is the only pick for the court that is truly illegitimate.

I think if there was a death or someone had to step down, you'd want the current president to appoint someone to fill the remainder of their term, rather than starting the clock all over again at 18 years. That would prevent retiring early to game the system.

[–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago

Yeah - you'd basically set up an 18-year cycle of appointments every 2 years with each seat up once per cycle.

I'd be okay with locking-in the number of seats on the Court at that point as well. Adding or removing seats would really screw with the system, and 9 seats with 18 year terms really does work out brilliantly mathematically.

Only once since the Civil War has a President been elected to replace a President of the same party (Reagan - > HW Bush), so keeping a 2-term President from being able to appoint a majority would probably result in a fairly balanced Court.

Also limiting them to 1 term offers the same political immunity a lifetime appointment does.

The more I think about it the more I like it.

[–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

If a Senator, Congresspe son, or President leaves office early, the person appointed or elected to fill the vacancy finishes out the term. The Supreme Court would be similar.

Maybe have a rule similar to the President that if a Justice serves less than X years of a predecessor's term they can be reappoonted, so that if someone dies or steps down a year before their term is up it doesn't screw the person who fills the vacancy.

[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I agree, but I also think 18 seems a little long. I think 14 would probably be a good number, or maybe 16. I think having it off the 4-year cycle is a solid idea. I assume 18 was chosen because that's two two-term presidents plus an extra 2 years to space it out to make it harder to game. I can see some of the reasons 18 was picked and I get it, but also 18 is the amount of time it takes to get the right to vote, which seems long for an unelected position to be held without the ability to give feedback.

[–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

Do you want an individual President to be able to select more than 50% of the Court?

If the answer is "no" then 18 years is going to need to be the minimum.

A 2-term President would get to nominate 4 justices with an 18-year term.

With 16-year terms, a 2-term President has a 50/50 shot of getting to nominate 5, depending on where in the SCOTUS cycle the President is elected.

16 is also problematic due to the number of seats on the Court. It's best to have it be 1, 3, 9, or 18 to keep the cycle regular, and everything but 18 is way too short.

18 really does work out very well.

[–] Yeller_king@reddthat.com 20 points 3 months ago (2 children)

For SCOTUS I think the idea is to have an opening every 2 years. I can see the argument in favor of replacing them at about that rate. But maybe 1 per year is better. Regardless, I'd like to see the SCOTUS openings be more predictable and frequent.

[–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 17 points 3 months ago (1 children)

18 years is perfect. It's the shortest term in which a single Predisent can't replace a majority of the justices.

[–] Yeller_king@reddthat.com 4 points 3 months ago

Yeah that occurred to me after I posted my comment. Seems perfect to me, too.

[–] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

9 years means a 2 term president gets 8 people on the court. That's a terrifying prospect.

[–] Yeller_king@reddthat.com 2 points 3 months ago
[–] BeigeAgenda@lemmy.ca 5 points 3 months ago

I think it makes sense if you want stability where there's always 4 senior judges with 10+ years experience.

And even better if we combine this with strict ethics rules where we can be sure any new Tomas etc. gets the boot.