This wasn't already the case? Shocking.
this post was submitted on 18 Mar 2024
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There are certain places where even with it's problematic nature, it was the more desirable material. Normally in industrial applications where temperatures would be several hundred degrees for long periods of time. Most of the replacements aren't much better in regards to the long term health risks they pose.
I quit working in a factory setting a couple years ago. It was definitely unsettling seeing dozens of pipes running all through the facility, and a few are labeled "Asbestos-Free".
I would think most of those applications should be able to use an alumino-silicate based refractory ceramic fiber. Kaowool is one brand, but there are many like it.
It has its own problems in regard to silicosis but that's only after it's been exposed to higher temperatures and are easily mitigated with most particulate respirators. Also, if I remember correctly, the silicosis threat requires very long term exposure. I do know of at least one company developing a silca-free version too, which would eliminate the silicosis threat.
I use it in glass manufacturing with temperatures 2000°F+ so I'm quite confident it'll hold up to any application where asbestos is being used.
EDIT: It will hold up in any application unless there's a problem with certain chemical reactivity I should say*. I don't expect that would be a common problem, but I'm sure it could happen. I'm admittedly not well versed on asbestos since I've never tried speccing it out for anything, haha.
Dust from refractory isn't good to breathe. Koawool still has warnings not to inhale the fluff. Anything that has silicate in it is a respiratory hazard when it has particles small enough to get into your lungs. And it, like asbestos, will cause issues. The speed at which these issues show up is linked to the amount you are exposed to. If you breathe clouds of the stuff for weeks on end, it'll show up a hell of a lot quicker than if you are exposed irregularly over years. ANY TIME you are working a SILICATE based material, you should be wearing respiratory protection (or around any dust really, even you are cleaning air vents or sanding wood). Silicosis is a killer, dust doesn't belong in lungs.
I use it in glass manufacturing with temperatures 2000°F+ so I’m quite confident it’ll hold up to any application where asbestos is being used.
Oh yeah? How is it for making Chlorine...because that's one of the big uses for chrysotile asbestos (the kind that was just banned.)
Not shocking to me. Canada still has operational asbestos mines, last time I had checked.
Beat me to it...
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-asbestos-707642/
Surprise surprise trump partly to blame
Nah, his rule there didn't really do much. Asbestos was already 98% banned long before he took office and his stupidity didn't move the needle on it's use.
In reality the type of asbestos in the article still has an exemption in Canada and other countries because of its specialty uses like creating the Chlorine used for water treatment. Yes we needed to be done with the stuff but Trump really had nothing to do with why we were still using one specific type of it for a short list of specific needs.
I'm a bit surprised USA didn't ban it earlier. But then I looked at our own history, and although Asbestos was banned from some uses like clothing already in 1972, it was only gradually banned from other uses through 20 years where the ban became complete in 1993. So although USA is late to the party, it did take a long time here too.
I remember there was a huge outrage here about asbestos back in the 70's, and I thought the ban was complete already back then.
But there is a huge difference in how dangerous it is, in some building materials it's apparently relatively safe, that is until it has to be replaced, that's the dangerous part, where you should be very careful and not do it without careful research on how to do it safely first, maybe preferably hire professionals.
I remember many years where car brakes whined because asbestos was banned. I wonder how much of that crap was in the air in our cities before that.
(Denmark)
Asbestos is safe in the same way old crates of TNT are. That is as long as it remains completely undisturbed and you're nowhere near it. Also much like old crates of TNT when discovered safely removing it involves a very expensive call to highly specialized removal teams and there's a high risk of collateral damage in the process.
I’m a bit surprised USA didn’t ban it earlier.
Much of it was banned 50 years ago. In 1973 the US used about 800,000 tons of the stuff and by 2023 that was down to ~1,000 tons. The US via the EPA did try and fully ban it back in 1989 when George H.W. Bush was President but a Federal Judge in the 5th Circuit Court blocked the EPA's effort. So instead we ended up with "almost completely banned".
Anyway the specific type that was still legal, the one in the article, has some specialty uses such as creating Sodium Chloride which is necessary for water treatment plants. Chrysotile asbestos still has an exemption in Canada, and other countries, for that very reason.
Ideally we would have had it completely banned back in '89 or at least by the mid 2000's like the EU countries but there is some nuance here.
1993 is 30 years ago tho
Stop pls it hurts
The 20 is referring to the period between 1972 and 1993
back in the 70's
So, plastics maybe phased out by 2078 then?
Kind of late, so I guess they didn’t do asbestos they could?
I’ll show myself out.
Asbestos didn't give me cancer but this joke might do the trick
"ThAtS sOcIaLiSm!!"- Republicans before they overturn it so they can have those sweet, sweet asbestos lungs
Absolutely, the free market takes care of everything. EVERYTHING!!
I'm looking at your username, and trying to figure out if You're BuffaloX or BuffaLox, a smoked buffalo/salmon hybrid
Mostly it originated from Buffalo always being taken, which I use because my name is Bill. Then I remembered as a child I had a book "King Christian X" (I'm from Denmark) so I thought adding the X was pretty cool. Also when programming 0X is Hexadecimal with 0 being a zero, so I thought it was super cool it kind of had a double meaning, if you allowed for some lack of accuracy. Originally I used big O for it to look more like a zero. But now I just call myself Buffalox, because that's how I say it. But Originally it was BuffalOX.
English is not my first language, and I wasn't aware there was a a smoked buffalo/salmon hybrid called buffalox. So thanks for telling me. 😀
Oh, there likely isn't a BuffaLox. I made it up on the spot,
Yeah capitalization isn't always enough. And I don't get the point capitalizing the L.
But it could also have been Buffalot as in Buff-a-lot.
Didn't trump revert something that asbebstos could be used in construction again? Or did he try that and failed? Or did I just dream that?
I remember him going off on a rant that it's a great insulator and really cheap and all that. Never mind all the cancer side effects.
Asbestos has been forbidden for a long time here ( around 2000 ). But you'll still find it in a lot of the older houses here. When you sell you need an asbestos certificate indicating how much asbestos is still in the house. So while it's been banned for use the past 20 years. I'm afraid it's far from gone here :(
Good luck on getting rid of it US! ( sincerely)
Guess where there is a town named asbestos and where the production and use is perfectly legal. It's Russia.
Oh I thought you meant Val-Del-Sources in Canada...
But what about muh mesothelioma lawyer?
Their backlog will keep them busy until they retire.
Do I get money to change the asbestos siding on the house I just bought?
No. A lot of those uses aren't particularly dangerous unless you start doing things like drilling holes in it or otherwise producing dust. If it needs to be replaced, you're on the hook for hiring somebody to remove it safely. Its use in new construction has been banned for decades.
This is just a ban on the last few uses of it.
The last I knew in the US you have a choice to remove it yourself, you can be as safe or unsafe as you see fit, there a very few rules. Or you pay a company which must follow strict regulation on its removal.
IIRC, once you get it tested and confirm it’s asbestos you do have to go through an abatement process. However, if you never confirm it then yeah it’s pretty much the Wild West.
I wouldn't be surprised if that was true in some states. Look up the rules where you are.
The state can't really stop you if they don't even know that it's in your house. If you start yanking out ceiling tiles made with asbestos and toss them in your household garbage, there's no great way for your state to do anything about it. On the other hand, if you do get caught, you are likely all kinds of fucked.
Not really. The correct way to dispose of asbestos is literally to put it in a garbage bag and send it to the dump. As far as a hazardous material it's only really bad for people. It's almost entirely chemically inert so it's actually far less bad for the environment than most of the stuff that winds up in the dump. Even ocasional exposure wont do anything to most people (not that it's good for you of course). It's mainly an issue if you work in an industry where you handle it every day.
I had to do some asbestos remediation in my house a while back (removing plaster filled with it) and I contacted the county about proper disposal. They literally just told me to bag it and huck it in a dumpster.
From what I'm finding, it has to be double bagged in 6mil bags, sealed, and can only be disposed of in landfills that are certified and approved for asbestos.
And yeah, I would be utterly unconcerned about asbestos being present in my home, unless I had to do significant renovations that would disturb the asbestos. Unless you work with it regularly, or are doing something that generates asbestos dust, it's just not a problem. OTOH, it caused lung cancers for thousands of people that were involved in the manufacture and installation of asbestos products.
This is correct. The only thing that is regulated is the disposal (at least in WA) - otherwise home owners are legally allowed to remove it themselves as they see fit. Not that I recommend it if you don't know what you're doing, but you won't get a fine.
Source: am homeowner who (with saftey precautions such as a tent of 3 mil plastic, negative airflow, HEPA shopvac, soap and water, and a proper respirator) removed asbestos tape from my duct work.
Even drilling a few holes is pretty whatever. Just wear a respirator. Continued prolonged exposure is what will give you cancer. A couple random holes and single exposures aren't gonna be a death sentence.
I have an asbestos siding home and low-key love it. It's a great insulator, super durable, holds paint forever. Nobody should install it ever again, however. Once it's there, it's there for good. If it's damaged and needs replaced, then you've got problems. Remediation and removel is ungodly expensive.
Are you near a wildfire prone area? Could come in handy if you are.
Are you a millionaire?
Did anybody think about the lawyers that live to say mesothelioma?
Now do guns and the military industrial complex .... they gotta have a higher annual death count worldwide than asbestosis.