this post was submitted on 12 Mar 2024
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More than 1/3 of voting eligible americans are russian conspirators didjahknow (media.kbin.social)
submitted 8 months ago by ReallyKinda@kbin.social to c/memes@lemmy.ml
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[–] PrinceWith999Enemies@lemmy.world 21 points 8 months ago (2 children)

This is a hot take.

Here’s the problem with your hypothesis:

You’re mixing together people who don’t vote with people publicly advocating not voting. That’s completely unsupported. Let’s see some stats on why people don’t vote. Is it because they don’t have time because they’re working, because they’re uncomfortable with the process, because they’re being lazy? On the other hand, what are the predictors of voting? We know age is a factor, so that would encourage us to think about the time availability question.

The second part is that the disengagement approach you’re advocating has driven the Democratic Party to the right. The Third Way movement came entirely from seeing Reagan’s engagement numbers. Not voting casts a zero information signal. First, the numbers only move mildly from year to year, and even when they do it tends to come down to the charisma of the candidate, not the policy positions.

A surprising number of Americans want universal healthcare, support LGBT rights and are against racism, yet vote for Donald Trump or DeSantis because they can get the crowds riled up in the way that policy wonks just don’t.

I mean, when the republicans did that huge study that found that economic and demographic changes in the US meant they needed to adopt more progressive policies (eg not being openly racist) if they wanted to have a future, the gop said “screw that, we will just depress the vote.”

So, no, your policy is not evidence-based, and it’s unreasonable. It forces the country to the right. If that’s what you want, go for it.

[–] Facebones@reddthat.com 5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Voters turned out in 2016, the DNC didn't like how that went and went to court and had it ruled in a court of law that the DNC is a private entity and can do wtfever they want to, voters be damned.

It's not some big secret that democrats see leftists as a bigger enemy than they ever saw Republicans as.

[–] PrinceWith999Enemies@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago (2 children)

First “democrats” is doing a lot of work here. I’m assuming the voters that you’re talking about turning out were democrats. I’m assuming the politicians they voted for were democrats. So what you mean is some subset (eg Third Way types, which have already been mentioned).

Use numbers. What was the turnout for the previous years? What was the turnout for Obama? For Bill Clinton? Was it bigger when Dennis Kucinich was in the race? Other than Bernie, he was the leftmost candidate that I can recall - at least in the top 5 in recent years. State the point you are trying to prove clearly, then demonstrate it.

I’m a Bernie supporter - he actually helped secure a research grant I worked on, I’ve met him in person, and I donated to each of his campaigns since I started to be able to do that kind of thing. I’m a member of the DSA. I’m also a scientist, and I deal with this kind of thing all the time.

What you’re basically coming off as, to be honest, is that family member in the maga hat who keeps yelling that 2020 was rigged.

[–] ReallyKinda@kbin.social 4 points 8 months ago

I think you’re arguing with ghosts, I’m honestly confused about what you’re trying to say and can’t keep track of all the assumptions you’re putting on the very little I said… I was truly trying to critique the fact that democrats specifically seem to jump to ‘Russian conspiracy’ very quickly when someone mentions they don’t believe in voting despite the fact that a large fraction of the population abstains from voting on a regular basis. You would think one would expect to run into a lot of true nonvoters given the statistics.

[–] Facebones@reddthat.com 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Use numbers

Sure, when you show me where I referenced numbers. I referenced a lawsuit which having happened in, yknow..... a court, can be found easy peasy by anybody who wants to put in two seconds of effort.

What you're basically coming off as, to be honest, is just another establishment Democrat who is putting more energy into fighting leftists than you do Republicans.

[–] PrinceWith999Enemies@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

In 2012 I voted against Obama because I thought he was too conservative. I didn’t think his healthcare program went far enough, I didn’t like his foreign policy of continuing the Bush wars, and I thought he turned out to be far more establishment than he had indicated as a candidate in 2008.

I voted for Jill Stein. I said it wasn’t a protest vote and that I was voting my conscience, but it was totally a protest vote. Stein would have been the worst president in US history, and I even knew that at the time. I did it because Obama had a predicted 99% chance of winning my state, so I figured it was safe and would communicate to the democrats that there was a preference for more left leaning candidates.

What I did not do was try to campaign for Stein to try to get swing state voters to vote for her. I didn’t try to get swing state voters to not vote.

[–] federatingIsTooHard@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago

i live in a swing state and i keep voting green because the democrats keep putting up pentagon shills.

[–] Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com 13 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

This is a so stupid wannabe rage baiting try lol.

Looks like the american GOP is getting desperate 😊.

[–] Amphobet@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

That's a lot of downvotes.

[–] ReallyKinda@kbin.social 3 points 8 months ago

I’m on kbin so I only see upvotes:)

[–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Nonvoters don't get to have opinions.

[–] knightly@pawb.social 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Voters don't even have opinions, they just pick between the genocidal geriatrics chosen by the real owners of this country and then shut up for four years.

[–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Ok, pizza cutter.

[–] knightly@pawb.social 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

I presume this is intended to be an insult, but you're gonna have to explain that one. XD

[–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 3 points 8 months ago (2 children)

All edge, no point.

[–] retrieval4558@mander.xyz 5 points 8 months ago

That is kinda funny

[–] knightly@pawb.social 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Apparently, realistic descriptions of the American voting process are now "edgy" and contrapositive arguments are "pointless". XD

[–] Facebones@reddthat.com 1 points 8 months ago

Any reference to variance from choosing between mid right and far right geriatrics, such as third parties or ranked voting, are considered more dangerous than the literal fascists. I've been banned from more than one community for discussing it by democrats, supposed lords of freedom and free speech etc etc. 🤷

[–] ReallyKinda@kbin.social -1 points 8 months ago

If anyone is interested in the actual reasons people give, you’re mostly out of luck because there is precious little research, neither of the major parties seem to care about this demographic, and neither do pollsters for the most part. Here’re the results of some research following the 2020 presidential (based on a fairly small sample).

Spoiler: It’s not because they don’t have time.