this post was submitted on 02 Feb 2024
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ngl russia is not making it easy to give critical support lol

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[–] Kaplya@hexbear.net 73 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (5 children)

Not directed at you OP, but just a general observation: I still don’t understand why so many Western leftists see things in such a black and white manner. This is especially true from my interactions with Americans in general, it’s almost always “the good guys” vs “the bad guys”, nothing in between.

You can absolute support Russia’s anti-imperialist goals while rejecting all their other reactionary views. The same can be said for support for the anti-imperialist causes of the Palestinians, Iranians, Lebanese, Algerians etc. You don’t have to like them, you just need to acknowledge that this is a historical process that is inevitable.

In my opinion, this is where the strengths of Marxism-Leninism lie, which provides a scientific and materialist lens to understand the world. The question to ask is not: should we support reactionary Global South countries against Western imperialism? The questions we should ask are: why have progressive movements that had proliferated throughout the 20th century across the Global South been largely obliterated? What was the historical and the objective process that had led to the demise of progressive politics and left-wing movements, and the rise of conservatism in the Global South, especially after 1990? What are the root causes underlying these symptoms and what is the process required to cultivate the very material conditions necessary to enable the growth of left-wing political movements in the Global South?

Like medical sciences, scientific socialism allows us to separate the root causes of the disease from a collection of symptoms, thus enabling us to find ways to cure the disease instead of merely treating the symptoms.

[–] kristina@hexbear.net 41 points 7 months ago (14 children)

This is especially true from my interactions with Americans in general, it’s almost always “the good guys” vs “the bad guys”, nothing in between.

Dualism, Christianity, and it's consequences

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[–] Carguacountii@hexbear.net 26 points 7 months ago (14 children)

I think Vijay Prashad wrote something about Russia like its viewed in the West as either the Vatican or hell... not hell, he uses a different word, its a much better phrase than I'm able to remember. But the point being that dichotomy between the source of moral authority, or the opposite (I guess alluding to Moscow as the fourth Rome).

On this particular topic, my own view is that Russia is restricting the rights/priviledges of what they term the 'international' LGBTQ movement, because I think the west uses wealthy urbanite associations of that kind in Russia (particularly St Petersberg/Moscow) for spying activities. At the same time, Putin has said (though ofc its necessary to examine what is done, not just what is said) that the LGBTQ community is part of Russian society, and shouldn't be attacked or victimised - this is probably because as a legalist ruler he wants to be in compliance with various legal obligations, and also doesn't want internal conflict. I think he isn't particularly opposed to the restrictions, because of the support it wins from the Orthodox church.

I wonder also with this particular topic, how much of the impetus for these kind of anti-progressive movements is to do with political kompromat. Certainly I don't think most of the elite, like aristos or capitalists for example, really care about sexual preferences, but rather its a useful political tool if the masses (are persuaded to) consider it immoral. Like with the 'Lavender Scare' in the US, but then I've also seen a CIA testimony saying that they (I paraphrase) 'like homosexuals because they're useful' referring I think to the usefulness of having something over someone. I suppose I mean, I wonder how much (alongside other factors) the passage of anti or pro LGBTQ laws is to do with wanting a political weapon, or alternatively as a kind of disarmemant treaty among the ruling classes.

[–] kristina@hexbear.net 32 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (4 children)

because I think the west uses wealthy urbanite associations of that kind in Russia (particularly St Petersberg/Moscow) for spying activities.

This has a factual basis, many LGBT communities in the global south are aware of it. Being LGBT in a country shit for LGBT people re: almost all of them makes it easier to blackmail you and spam you with propaganda that somehow America and the west are a significant leg up on LGBT rights, somehow. And of course they sweeten the deal by giving you money

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[–] arabiclearner@hexbear.net 18 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

And western leftists will also immediately believe something if it conforms to what they originally wanted to believe. If some western rag says something mean about China, they will rightly be suspicious of it, but "The Moscow Times" is suddenly a legit source? (Look it up it's pretty much a pro western newspaper that's not even based in Russia). I don't know much about this case, and yeah the LGBT situation in Russia isn't great, and it's quite possible that this lady was probably targeted because of rainbow earrings, but you're right, western leftists really need to understand what the "critical" in critical support means.

[–] Kaplya@hexbear.net 33 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

While The Moscow Times is indeed a pro-Western liberal news outlet, this particular incident did happen as it was reported in Russian media as well. What’s not reported in the article though is that she was detained for like 5 days so it’s not like she’s rotting in prison or anything (people in the US have gone to jail for weed possession with far worse sentence). Still this is something we should condemn while understanding that their progressives have their own fight in their own country, whereas the best the comrades from the imperial core can do is to bring down their own imperialism from within - that would really help the progressives across the Global South.

[–] an_engel_on_earth@hexbear.net 27 points 7 months ago (7 children)

Nizhny Novgorod’s Sormovsky District Court found Yershova guilty of publicly displaying symbols of an “extremist” organization, a misdemeanor offense, and jailed her for five days

it does in fact report that it was only a five day sentence. Idk I guess Im just sad and pissed that innocent queer people are getting targeted. But I remind myself to look at the bigger picture, and not have a kneejerk response. Like Im not saying Russia needs to legalize same sex marriage or introduce anti discrimination laws, but if the situation could go back to how it was in the 90s or early 2000s where people were just left alone. Its just a part of this reactionary wave in Russia where they technically even banned gender markers: https://www.sostav.ru/publication/feminitivy-65608.html. Basically the headline says The Supreme Court has declared the use of gender markers a trait of the LGBT movement. Its a lot and it just makes me depressed for non-straight folk in the region. But I get it, I'm being a liberal by bringing attention to this. May things change one day.

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[–] Dolores@hexbear.net 49 points 7 months ago (6 children)

"the imperial powers use lgbt rights/feminism as a wedge fot justifying imperialism" ought to be met with these governments resolving the grievances of these movements so they can't be coopted into anti-government plots. russia-cool it's bad morally and it's bad strategy,

[–] Adkml@hexbear.net 36 points 7 months ago (16 children)

Yea "they're pointing out a bad thing we do to make us look bad" is pretty fucking weak

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[–] Assian_Candor@hexbear.net 42 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Fellas is it gay to refract light

[–] QuillcrestFalconer@hexbear.net 22 points 7 months ago (1 children)
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[–] Thordros@hexbear.net 39 points 7 months ago (1 children)

The Moscow Times? Isn't that basically Radio Free (Insert Enemy State Here) in print format?

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[–] GarfGirl@hexbear.net 35 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)
[–] Dirt_Owl@hexbear.net 33 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Modern Russia is an embarrassment to the USSR that once took them to the stars. It's incredibly sad to see them become just as chudified as the US. What capitalism does to a mother fucker.

ussr-cry

[–] Tankiedesantski@hexbear.net 22 points 7 months ago

This is why I don't understand leftists who oppose China and other AES based on specific social issues like LGBT rights. Look at the imperfect rights of LGBT people in the USSR and tell me that you'd rather be LGBT in the post-Soviet states instead.

Nothing got better as a result of the fall of the USSR unless you were a Patriarch in the Orthodox Church. Can't imagine why anyone would rationally advocate for that shit to happen again.

[–] wrecker_vs_dracula@hexbear.net 33 points 7 months ago (8 children)

Didn't think I'd see the Moscow Times posted here.

[–] an_engel_on_earth@hexbear.net 22 points 7 months ago (1 children)

hey at least its not the kyiv post

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[–] thelastaxolotl@hexbear.net 30 points 7 months ago
[–] DragonBallZinn@hexbear.net 26 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

So much for the free speech right russia-cool

lenin-sleeping. Please wake up.

[–] BynarsAreOk@hexbear.net 24 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (8 children)

Did any of you actualy read the stupid article?

A video shared by ultra-conservative bloggers showed an unidentified man threatening to turn the pair into the police for wearing a Ukrainian flag pin and rainbow earrings.

Yeah, I'll just casually wear western values AND a flag pin of our current mortal enemies in time of war and expect nothing will happen?

Did nobody actually watch the video? Is it because its telegram or what lol? The person is actually literaly wearing a Ukrainian flag pin. Whether or not she had any LGBTQ symbol or not is not the only point, heck I'm pretty sure nothing would have happened without this galaxy brain decision to wear an Ukrainian flag.

But it gets worse

“Also, during the process, the earrings themselves were examined, and it was found that they have the shape of a frog with an image of a 7-color rainbow,” Egida quoted an unnamed defense attorney as saying.

And then you call Russia right wing? Going to 4chan and posting a rainbow flag doesn't make that place any less of a neonazi shithole. Why a frog specificaly? Is that not an obvious dog whistle or what?

Don't misunderstand me, it absolutely sucks that Russia is a socialy conservative shithole. I can give you the benefit of doubt and say you're just some random Ukrainian expats completely clueless that happen to be LGBTQ but you have to damn well pick your battles, you're in Russia not New York, you don't get to wear an Ukrainian flag in time of war, period. This would be true literaly anywhere else in the world too or do you think you get to wear a German flag in Moscow 1943 just because you're an expat?

I am confident this would not have happened without that incredibly bright decision and this is a stupid struggle session almost embarrassing, and you say Americans lack critical reading ability.

Also The Moscow Times despite claiming to be Russian is online published from the Netherlands. Yeah that is about as legitimate as Putin launching a Russian version of NYT lol.

[–] TechnoUnionTypeBeat@hexbear.net 33 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

Calling the rainbow flag "Western Values"

Thinking all frogs are dog whistles

I'm diagnosing you with a terminal case of online, the cure is to step outside and touch grass for 10 hours (not consecutively)

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[–] WithoutFurtherBelay@hexbear.net 30 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (13 children)

Yeah the person is cringe asf but how are rainbow earrings western values

Edit: Also do you really think it was a Pepe frog? Frogs have been a thing with gay people for… fuck knows how long

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[–] wrecker_vs_dracula@hexbear.net 22 points 7 months ago

Bit idea: wear a Russian flag pin and bear-shaped rainbow earrings around Lviv.

[–] AssortedBiscuits@hexbear.net 21 points 7 months ago

Did any of you actualy read the stupid article?

This isn't the news mega. Of course no one read the fucking article.

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[–] Evilphd666@hexbear.net 21 points 7 months ago

I keep being berated as "chauvinist" to stand in solidarity with [not anglo-burn ] country's queer liberation movement to improve-society

So I don't know how I'm supposed to feel without offending someone somewhere with my "paternal" concerns.

[–] wombat@hexbear.net 20 points 7 months ago

stalin shouldn't have stopped at berlin

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