this post was submitted on 25 Jan 2024
53 points (88.4% liked)

World News

39102 readers
2232 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News !news@lemmy.world

Politics !politics@lemmy.world

World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Israel has declassified more than 30 secret orders made by government and military leaders, which it says rebut the charge that it committed genocide in Gaza, and instead show Israeli efforts to diminish deaths among Palestinian civilians.

The release of the documents, copies of which were reviewed by The New York Times, follows a petition to the International Court of Justice by South Africa, which has accused Israel of genocide. Much of South Africa’s case hinges on inflammatory public statements made by Israeli leaders that it says are proof of intent to commit genocide.

Part of Israel’s defense is to prove that whatever politicians may have said in public was overruled by executive decisions and official orders from Israel’s war cabinet and its military’s high command.

The court, the U.N.’s highest judicial body, began hearing arguments in the case this month, and is expected to provide an initial response to South Africa’s petition — in which it could call for a provisional cease-fire — as soon as Friday.

Archive

top 16 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] AbouBenAdhem@lemmy.world 37 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

So they were publicly making genocidal statements while giving their military secret orders to play nice.

Basically the opposite of every war ever.

[–] JeffKerman1999@sopuli.xyz 22 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Also they were "playing nice" so much that they killed Israelis because they felt like killing someone

[–] WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 7 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

They were so careful they killed more civilians in the last 3 months than were killed in the first 3 months of almost every war since WW2.

[–] breakfastmtn@lemmy.ca 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Do you really think that ~20K civilians is more than were killed in almost every war since WWII? That's extremely untrue.

[–] WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Per conflict. Not combined. Even the larger conflicts that were relatively indiscriminate took a long time to ramp up and kill so many civilians.

Ukraine recorded the same amount in ~18 months.

The Iraq war averaged the same amount (20-30k) per YEAR.

Even Vietnam averaged about 10-15k civilians in the same amount of time.

Also, the population of all of the above is/was 10-20x larger than Gaza.

[–] Lath@kbin.social 9 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

I know little of past wars, but you seem to know a little less.

In general, orders to play nice were given from the top because they needed the infrastructure kept intact as much as possible and make it cheaper to rebuild after. But those orders got diluted as they went down the command chain because there was no such thing as absolute control over an entire army.
And even if the orders were disobeyed, there wasn't much punishment given after the fact in order to avoid the chance of rebellion.

So these orders can be factually correct, but also just paper to wipe their asses with.

[–] AbouBenAdhem@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago

I’m not talking about the difference between policies issued from the top and the behavior of soldiers in the field—I’m talking about the difference between public statements and secret orders.

[–] MotoAsh@lemmy.world 17 points 10 months ago

Ahh yes, 30. I'm sure that's all the orders given over weeks of campaign.

[–] Marsupial@quokk.au 11 points 10 months ago

Either the military must really suck at following orders if what’s happening is them trying reduce civilian deaths, or they were going for more but 25,000 dead is the reduced number.

[–] Paragone@lemmy.world 10 points 10 months ago

Objectivity: consistently measure by actions, not by mere-assertions, no matter whether those assertions are on paper, or not.

_ /\ _

[–] ragica@lemmy.ml 6 points 10 months ago

Seems like a tacit admission at very least that to anyone without access to these internal documents the accusation of genocide is reasonable. Interesting.

[–] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago
[–] chuckleslord@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago

Bibi said that's there no end to this war with a Palestinian State. All the secret memos in the world aren't going to cover up the blatant calling for Genocide.

[–] autotldr@lemmings.world 2 points 10 months ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:


Israel has declassified more than 30 secret orders made by government and military leaders, which it says rebut the charge that it committed genocide in Gaza, and instead show Israeli efforts to diminish deaths among Palestinian civilians.

The court, the U.N.’s highest judicial body, began hearing arguments in the case this month, and is expected to provide an initial response to South Africa’s petition — in which it could call for a provisional cease-fire — as soon as Friday.

Among the declassified Israeli documents are summaries of cabinet discussions from late October, in which Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu ordered supplies of aid, fuel and water to be sent to Gaza.

“The prime minister stressed time and again the need to increase significantly the humanitarian aid in the Gaza Strip,” reads one declassified document that Israel’s lawyers said was taken from the minutes of a cabinet meeting on Nov. 14.

Israel has also submitted to the court a handful of emails between military officers and aid workers that it says shows its efforts to supply Gaza with food, medicine and vaccinations.

One email, from a senior U.N. official to an Israeli officer overseeing aid distribution to Gaza, detailed an approved request to deliver solar-powered refrigerators to the territory to store vaccines and lab tests.


The original article contains 1,150 words, the summary contains 213 words. Saved 81%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago

NYT being a mouthpiece for the apartheid regime just like they always are for cops. Fucking bootlicker rag 🤬

[–] monkeytrench@kbin.social 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)