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Apple plans to charge fees for sideloading (9to5mac.com)

submitted 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) by jvrava9@lemmy.dbzer0.com to c/technology@lemmy.world

316 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Who would've thought? This isn’t going to fly with the EU.

Article 5.3 of the Digital Markets Act (DMA): "The gatekeeper shall not prevent business users from offering the same products or services to end users through third-party online intermediation services or through their own direct online sales channel at prices or conditions that are different from those offered through the online intermediation services of the gatekeeper."

Friendly reminder that you can sideload apps without jailbreaking or paying for a dev account using TrollStore, which utilises core trust bugs to bypass/spoof some app validation keys, on a iPhone XR or newer on iOS 14.0 up to 16.6.1. (ANY version for iPhone X and older)

Install guide: Trollstore

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[–] maynarkh@feddit.nl 239 points 9 months ago (19 children)

Top comment by Chris (@SwiftySanders@urbanists.social) Liked by 7 people

I think all these changes that the EU is doing really only benefit large development firms like Spotify and Epic at the expense of the smaller developers. EU is adding additional regulations and requirements from Apple which smaller developers and indie developers will now have to comply with which will act as barriers to entry for some. That’s bad for competition…which I think was ultimately the goal for Epic and Spotify.

I love this braindead take regurgitated again and again and again. The DMA specifically does not apply to anyone smaller than a big monopolistic company. Apple barely made the cut themselves. The whole regulation is about forcing six companies - the Act only applies to them at all - to open up their walled gardens because they are strangling their respective markets and killing innovation, consumer choice and competition.

[–] dan1101@lemm.ee 121 points 9 months ago (4 children)

That is hilarious that they expect iOS users to pay a fee to sideload apps. Like comically evil.

[–] OpenStars@startrek.website 83 points 9 months ago (3 children)

I don't pay anything to side load apps on my phone.

Probably bc I switched to Android.:-)

And I am never ever going back!

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[–] altima_neo@lemmy.zip 24 points 9 months ago (2 children)

It's not the users they're charging, it's the developers. Instead of having to pay 30%, they're asking for 27% if they're selling their app side loaded.

Defeating the whole purpose.

[–] steal_your_face@lemmy.ml 18 points 9 months ago

Those numbers are from using outside payment methods and not side loading.

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[–] CaptainBasculin@lemmy.ml 16 points 9 months ago (4 children)

This was how it worked for years for developers. First step of testing your app on an iOS device you have is to pay Apple a developer fee. This has been a thing even back in iOS 3 times.

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[–] penquin@lemm.ee 178 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (22 children)

I fucking hate Apple with a passion.

Edit: many people seem to be a bit confused. I don't own any apple garbage, and never will. I've only had an iPhone back in 2016 for a little while then replaced that shit with a pixel 6p. I don't buy shit that makes my life difficult.

[–] returnofthemack@sh.itjust.works 14 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Sent from an iPhone

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[–] kinttach@lemm.ee 105 points 9 months ago (7 children)

Who would’ve thought? This isn’t going to fly with the EU.

Article 5.3 of the Digital Markets Act (DMA): “The gatekeeper shall not prevent business users from offering the same products or services to end users through third-party online intermediation services or through their own direct online sales channel at prices or conditions that are different from those offered through the online intermediation services of the gatekeeper.”

Apple has an annual legal budget of approximately infinity dollars. I assure you they are aware of this and they believe they are in compliance, even if just barely.

If challenged, they will have no problem fighting it — they have nearly as much cash on hand as the entire EU budget.

I hope the EU challenges this, and I hope the EU wins, but Apple isn’t going to be surprised by whatever happens.

[–] jvrava9@lemmy.dbzer0.com 36 points 9 months ago (1 children)

The fine would be approximately 10% of Apple's total revenue and the fine increases by 10% every violoation so I doubt that Apple can not accept the regulations.

[–] kinttach@lemm.ee 21 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Unfortunately, Apple has the resources, both legal and financial, to tie that up in the EU courts for decades.

[–] jvrava9@lemmy.dbzer0.com 19 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

We'll see what happens

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[–] olafurp@lemmy.world 24 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Apple has also been known to ignore laws and pay fines for breaking them. The store is a major revenue stream so they might just do that.

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[–] nyankas@lemmy.ml 85 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (3 children)

I‘d be really surprised if Apple tried that.

They have to know that it violates the DMA. And the penalty for violating it can be up to 10% of their yearly worldwide revenue (not earnings!) for the first violation and up to 20% for repeated violations. I don‘t think they‘d risk that, especially as the EU really isn’t known for its leniency when someone intentionally breaks their rules.

[–] Wogi@lemmy.world 33 points 9 months ago

Velociraptors testing the fence. It may be illegal but they may get away with it if they can argue "no actually'

[–] anlumo@lemmy.world 20 points 9 months ago (1 children)

On the positive side, those fines could fix the finances of a few smaller EU countries in a single sweep.

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[–] sudotstar@kbin.social 15 points 9 months ago (3 children)

I'm not too sure that these actions violate the letter of the law here, even though I agree that they're 100% in violation of the spirit of the law.

It's been some years since I've put the mobile development world behind me, in no small part because of Apple's shenanigans, but the way I understand how this might work - Apple may be required to allow "iOS software" to be installed from third party stores, but software that runs on iOS must either be signed using a certificate that only allows installation in a developer or enterprise context (which require explicit and obvious user consent to that specific use case, and come with other restrictions such as the installation only lasting for a limited period of time), or through an "appstore" certificate that allows installation on any device, but the actual application package will need to go through Apple's pipeline (where I believe it gets re-signed before final distribution on the App Store). All certificates, not just the appstore ones, are centrally managed by Apple and they do have the power to revoke, or refuse to renew, any of those certificates at-will.

If my understanding is correct (I'd appreciate if any up-to-date iOS devs could fact-check me), then Apple could introduce or maintain any restrictions they please on handling this final signing step, even if at the end of the day the resulting software is being handed back to developers to self-distribute, they can just refuse to sign the package at all, preventing installation on most consumer iOS devices, and to refuse to re-issue certificates to specific Apple developer accounts they deem in violation of their expected behavior. I haven't read the implementation of the DMA in detail, nor am I a lawyer, so I'm not sure if there are provisions in place that would block either of these actions from Apple, but I do expect that there will be a long game of cat and mouse here as Apple and the EU continue to try and one-up the other's actions.

[–] ClemaX@lemm.ee 14 points 9 months ago (3 children)

But the article of the DMA says that the gatekeeper shall not prevent the business user to serve their product using other conditions than those of the gatekeeper's platform. I think that would include Apple's publishing guidelines.

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[–] erranto@lemmy.world 75 points 9 months ago (42 children)

Those who buy apple products deserve each other.

[–] laughterlaughter@lemmy.world 43 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Exactly my thoughts. "Let's jailbreak this, bypass that, circumvent that one thing..." Why do you subject yourself to this with a device you paid hundreds of dollars for?

As much as I'd like to have an iPhone, I'd rather not.

As an aside, it's the same thing with game consoles. Is the whole "you must be connected to the internet" thing still happening? That's what has been preventing me from getting a new xbox, for example.

[–] SeekPie@lemmy.world 19 points 9 months ago (6 children)

Steam Deck is pretty awesome in the offline gaming regard, if that's what you might be looking for.

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[–] RandomVideos@programming.dev 41 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (49 children)

IOS is the worst operating system i have ever used

Why do people buy it?

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[–] TheBlue22@lemmy.blahaj.zone 39 points 9 months ago

I refuse to ever use a single Apple product.

[–] LemmyTryThisOut@lemmy.world 31 points 9 months ago (11 children)

Yeah, I mean or you could just stop buying Apple products.

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[–] flop_leash_973@lemmy.world 31 points 9 months ago (2 children)

I can't say I am surprised. Apples view is that since they made the device and provided the software they are entitled to a cut of anything that happens on it, because that software makes use of something Apple created.

I don't agree and think it is a crazy view. But that sort of corporate mindset is one of the reasons I have never been big on Apple products.

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[–] rickdg@lemmy.world 30 points 9 months ago (1 children)

So… frontloading?

Apple is doing this thing where legislation applies to them and they just try not following it anyway. Trump is truly influential.

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[–] White_Flight@lemmy.world 25 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (4 children)

of course Apple plans to charge fees for sideloading, a bunch of scumbags, but fear not, Apple fan boys cult members will regurgitate Apple's propaganda as gospel

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[–] KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml 25 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Classic Apple.

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[–] Octagon9561@lemmy.ml 19 points 9 months ago (14 children)

As someone who uses both Android and iOS, I appreciate my Pixel 8 Pro running GrapheneOS (a custom version of Android) more and more.

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[–] jvrava9@lemmy.dbzer0.com 19 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Install guide: Trollstore

[–] LazaroFilm@lemmy.world 15 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Another alternative is SideStore which allows to refresh apps from your phone without a computer. Just a WiFi connection. It has the benefit of working with any ios versions including the latest ones that TrollStore doesn’t support.

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[–] thehatfox@lemmy.world 16 points 9 months ago (9 children)

I’m not sure how this would work in practice. Developers distributing apps independently to be sideloaded wouldn’t be submitting them to Apple to review, and sideloaded code may not even have an identifiable developer to charge.

I suppose Apple could implement some sort of rigid signing system, but I think the EU would see that as just another abuse of power.

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[–] herrwoland@lemmy.world 16 points 9 months ago (19 children)

Because of course they are! There goes my plan to try an iPhone when side loading becomes available.

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[–] TicklishRocket@lemmy.world 14 points 9 months ago

Crapple

[–] Sensitivezombie@lemmy.zip 14 points 9 months ago (3 children)

It's hard to imagine people who buy iPhones care about sideloading. Their priority is the convenience of iMessage and the Apple ecosystem.

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