this post was submitted on 17 Jun 2023
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Drama in the Fediverse

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there was an update from the admins of lemmy.nsfw where language barriers got in the way and the wrong impression was made, which was quickly addressed by the instance's other admin as well as edited by its' original author.

this got people in this instance concerned until the edit was made, however in two threads about it on kbin social the anime PFPs came out to play and the head admin of dataterm was obligated to comment as well

the funniest part is, it really demonstrates the truth of stereotypes about people with anime loli PFPs. at least a couple of the commenters in those threads are going to end up on watchlists.

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[–] AngrilyEatingMuffins@kbin.social 17 points 1 year ago (2 children)

OK sure there’s no victim - but who the fuck wants to see this shit anyway?!

[–] ZILtoid1991@kbin.social 10 points 1 year ago

While I mostly agree with the no victim statement (some artists were caught using illegal references), it's important to know that the loli fandom is the most toxic element of the whole anime community, and also it's illegal in many countries, including the very one that hosts this instance (Poland).

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

I think they call themselves Ephebophiles

[–] TerryMathews@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

ITT: people who don't know that "loli" derives from the Nabokov novel "Lolita", about a man who kidnaps and sexually abuses a 12 year old.

[–] rynzcycle@kbin.social 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And he wasn't sure if he at all was going to publish it. I believe it was his wife who convinced him. Unfortunately people didn't/don't understand the point with the book, ie this is a bad thing to do.

[–] a_crappy_pirate@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

does he kidnap her or is he just someone who is paying board to live in their spare room? i'v seen the 1962 movie but haven't read the book

[–] BrambleDog@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago

He is a tenant, than marries the mother, than it is implied he kills her, now has legal custody over the girl, and takes her on a road trip.

At least, that is my memory of how it played out.

[–] gunnervi@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago

As I understand it he starts out just living with them but then kidnaps the girl after the mother dies

[–] Suedeltica@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

He boards at her house, marries her mother to get closer to her, and after her mother dies he kidnaps her, yes

[–] Pilirin@kbin.social 10 points 1 year ago (4 children)

what a clusterfuck. after the beehaw bullshit it really looks like "defederation" is going to be the battlecry of the popcorn consumer, huh? well, maybe not so much "battlecry" as "call to the decadence couch" but whatever

[–] sweeper@reddthat.com 6 points 1 year ago

can you please at least attempt to not spray crumbs everywhere this time tho? someone's gotta clean that

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[–] MargotRobbie@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Are we doing r/drama again?

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[–] STUPIDVIPGUY@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's reasonable not to ban ambiguous stuff where the character looks like they could maybe be 17 or 19. You're not protecting anybody by banning a drawing with no real age.

However calling it "irl loli" is absolutely disgusting and that combined with the casual attitude in the post is also disgusting

[–] melonpunk@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

"irl loli" ??? Is that some way of downplaying CP? It's fucking CP?!?! Holyshit. I can't believe they switched the term to try and not sound so bad.

EDIT: Just read the post and they say IRL kids. Still, the terminology feels like it stems from replacing drawings with photos, like it's just another medium of expression, not an act of wicked abuse to the subject.

[–] Shortcake@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

go to https://kbin.social/d/lemmynsfw.com and hit the block button if you don't want posts from there in your feed

[–] a_crappy_pirate@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

that's good advice for those who might be bothered by legal nudity or are in a place where it's inapproprate to view it, but if people filter by subscriptions then it shouldn't be much of a muchness. for example i haven't subscribed to any communities on that instance and the only times i see their posts is when people on other instances link to them. once this place picks up enough traffic for people to no longer watch the all page then that problem will go away

[–] Shortcake@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

agreed. lol much of a muchness

[–] SpezCanLigmaBalls@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)
[–] GaryPonderosa@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

You know how weebs are always making absurd claims like "well she's really a 3000 year old dragon in the body of a 12 year old, so I'm not a pedo"?

Loli/shota dispenses with that. It's about romantic relationships between adults and children. It's pedophilia. Full. Stop.

Loli is underage girls, shota is underage boys.

[–] RightHandOfIkaros@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The Japanese term "Loli" is a shortened version of the English term "Lolita," which itself is a Spanish nickname for the female Spanish name Dolores.

In English, "Lolita" is the name of a novel written in 1955 by a Russian American author which is famous for its incredibly controversial theme: the male protagonist's obsession and sexual attraction to a 12 year old girl, who he kidnaps and abuses. The protagonist calls this girl "Lolita" in private.

In Japanese / Anime culture, the term is used to refer to any character that has a very young appearance, and often displays traits similar to that of young girls, such as innocence or airheadedness. The age of such a character is not relevant, as the author can pick any number arbitrarily. Three, three hundred million, doesn't matter because the term only refers to appearance.

The term "Lolicon" is a portmanteau of the term "Lolita Complex," and originally in the 1970s and 1980s, was used to refer more generally to feelings of love for cute things and cute fictional characters, which came from the anime of the time portraying Japan's "ideal young girl." This original meaning is now known as "moe." The current meaning of "Loli" and "Lolicon" which began to appear in the 1990s, is much closer to the source material of its name, being a specific attraction to characters who appear to be 15 years old and below.

It is important to note that in Japan they do not use the same word as "pedophilia" nor any equivalent Japanese word. There is apparently some distinction between the two, but since I am not an expert in Japanese language I would not be able to tell you the difference. It seems the nuance is very difficult to communicate though, as "loli" has been conflated with "pedophilia" for a long time and while that has been denied as the English equivalent, no suitable alternative explanation has been given. It is very likely no exact English equivalent exists, as there is a major disconnect of culture between Japan and English speaking countries. Thus the term "pedophilia" is used.

"Shota" is the male equivalent of "Loli." Thus, "Shotacon" is the male counterpart to "Lolicon." In Japanese media, "shotacon" are often depicted as women, however the authors of such media are often men.

My personal opinion on this: Its pretty disgusting.

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[–] a_crappy_pirate@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

"loli" is underage girls, and "shota" is underage boys? not 100% sure tho

[–] SpezCanLigmaBalls@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What a terrible day to be literate

[–] Falmarri@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (15 children)
[–] cats@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Drawings of some of the most heinous crimes humans commit, and thoughts they have. It’s natural for people to be disgusted by them.

[–] Falmarri@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (6 children)

So you never watch a movie with murder? I'm sorry I can just differentiate between fantasy and reality and know that drawings won't hurt people.

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[–] PM_me_your_vagina_thanks@kbin.social 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Drawings made specifically for paedophiles to get sexual satisfaction, fuck off.

[–] Falmarri@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

So you'd rather have them hurt real people than jerk off over drawings? Yikes

[–] Burp@kbin.social 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I, and many others, find the use of ‘loli’ content in this context to be morally questionable. The key concern is the normalization of such behaviors, which can perpetuate and potentially endorse harmful desires. Moreover, even though it involves drawings, it still fosters an environment that is fundamentally based on the sexualization of underage characters.

[–] Falmarri@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (22 children)

undefined> The key concern is the normalization of such behaviors, which can perpetuate and potentially endorse harmful desires

This is the same exact argument that violent video games "normalizes" violence. It was wrong then and it's wrong here.

[–] BuxtonsWaterUK@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Absolutely, people do not commit major crimes just because they saw them on TV or read it in the newspapers. They do it because they want to.

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[–] Aeonx@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago

In case no one got the memo the world is run by pedophiles and human traffickers. Top politicians, entertainment industry, corrupt judges, bankers, the elite. Our entire world is morally questionable. I'm just not going to get worked up over fake children in fake worlds, when there are real children being hurt who need my outrage more.

As a side note, do video games normalize violence? Because if we are going to use the argument that people looking at drawings normalizes and endorses harmful desires then we really need to have the discussion about video game violence.

[–] PM_me_your_vagina_thanks@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'd rather them not fucking jack it to anything resembling children you fucking imbecile.

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