this post was submitted on 29 Nov 2023
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Interesting article from NPR.

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[–] Jynx_lucky_j@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago (3 children)

The librarians are responsible for curating books and assigning them to the appropriate sections. That said librarians are human and mistakes can happen, if you believe a book is inappropriately categorized speak to a librarian about it (in a respectful manner please) and they will reevaluate the book.

However, while a certain book may generally be appropriate for a certain age range, not every book is appropriate for every reader. While the librarians can offer guidelines, in the end it is the parents responsibility to ensure their child is only checking out materials appropriate for them. This duty cannot be off loaded onto the librarians.

[–] sirbruce@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago (6 children)

And what then should parents do if they think librarians haven't been doing a good enough job? Convince them all one by one until the librarians all agree with the parents? Or simply pass a law making sure the librarians follow the guidelines the majority has agreed upon?

[–] veriditas007@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

And what then should parents do if they think librarians haven't been doing a good enough job?

maintain better control over their kids instead of trying to trash a public resource??

[–] The_Parsee_Man@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago (3 children)

The public managing a public resource in the way they see fit is not trashing it. That's how it's supposed to work.

[–] veriditas007@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago

Censorship of all families' choices because you are too inept to manage your own child is not actually how "it" is supposed to work

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[–] MoistPete@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago

If we're talking about a public library, they should find the form to reconsider having the book in the library. They typically ask why you think it should be removed, other materials that would be more appropriate, etc.

In the public libraries I know, that goes to their admin department to be re-evaluated. In mine, it's done by the director and head librarian. It's not a majority vote by all the librarians, and the librarian who purchased it doesn't have the final say. All public libraries have a reconsideration policy/collection guidelines. If they review it and find that the book violates those, they'll get rid of it.

There are ways to appeal their decision as well.

[–] Jynx_lucky_j@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Then you can present your case to the Library Board of Directors, a group of local civilians appointed by the local government to oversee the library and it's operations, at one of their regularly scheduled public meetings.

Present your case and if they board believes that there may be validity to your case they will launch an investigation. If the investigation finds that the librarians are not properly following the library's collection polices, the librarians responsible will be reprimanded, or in extreme or repeat cases they can recommend the local government fire the offending librarian. Or if they find the librarians were following the library's collection policy correctly, but the policy is flawed then the board can rewrite the appropriate sections of the policy.

[–] the_pedigree@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

It is unfathomable that there is ever an actual case where this is appropriate. Unless the librarian is putting Madonna’s “Sex” in the children’s section nobody’s idiosyncrasies should rule the day. Those parents who have that inclination should reassess or at the least just focus on sheltering their own children rather than rabble-rousing

[–] Jynx_lucky_j@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago

I agree, but the procedure is in place and they have a right to access it.

I'm the Library Director at my library, and if after talking to me about their issue they are still unhappy and want to take their complaint to the next level, I tell them the time and date of the next Board meeting and tell them that I will make sure they are on the agenda.

I've only had 1 person actually show up to the meeting. And in that case the Board determined that we had followed the library collection policy accurately, that the policy was sound, and that no further action would be taken. (It was Harry Potter btw, way back in the "These books promote witchcraft" days).

But honestly the vast majority of the time I'm able to resolve the issue just by talking to them. Most people just want to be heard and validated so telling them they we will be reevaluating the book, and if appropriate we will relabel it and move it to a more appropriate location is enough to put an end to it.

[–] the_pedigree@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago

Just stay away from the library snowflake. Things sure are scary out there for you far right conservatives.

[–] Alcohol_Intolerant@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago

You are responsible for what your child has access to, whether that is junk food, the internet, books, toys, what have you. The librarians are catering to the requests and needs of every part of their community. If you believe a mistake has been made in curation or cataloging (it happens,large libraries intake thousands of titles each year) then go through the appropriate channels.

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[–] SignificantGoose411@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

The local libraries should reflect those standards and abide by them.

[–] Jynx_lucky_j@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago

Most libraries have it written in their policy that one of the factors they should consider when curating books is where they are appropriate for the community they serve. And they have procedures in place for challenging material that individuals find to be inappropriate.

However most communities are more diverse than many individual people realize and just because the book isn't appropriate for them doesn't mean that it isn't serving others in their community.

At my library I once had someone complain that 50 Shades of Grey wasn't appropriate for our library because we have such a large senior community. But to be honest, 80% of the series' checkouts were by the very little old ladies that patron was concerned about.

Honestly if book is getting decent circulation it is probably a better fit for the community than people want to admit. And if it is not a good fit for the community it sits on the shelf collecting dust until it gets weeded out for lack of circulation.

[–] Ombwah@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago (2 children)

How is an ignorant or illiterate parent going to " ensure their child is only checking out materials appropriate for them." Isn't a librarian more qualified to know than a parent that is statistically unlikely to be educated enough to make a reasoned decision?

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[–] EditorOverall3861@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago (3 children)

I think this is a targeted nonsense to distract people on a local level from actual serious political issues like crumbling infrastructure, multiple direct threats to democracy, the rise of fascism, and the acceleration of the decline of our material conditions.

I think this book stuff specifically is probably mostly far right astroturfing and then some local groups feeling emboldened by that. Literally never seen this level of local political action in my lifetime, across locations.

[–] Bananaperate6623@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago

Interesting take. Not sure what your point is. But what books are in what libraries is largely irrelevant given

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[–] ViniVidiVelcro@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Librarians and other library professionals.

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[–] LowBalance4404@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago (5 children)

At a public library, that's ridiculous. A 10 year old isn't driving to the library, his parent or legal guardian is taking him. It's a bit different in a public school library.

[–] Living-Attempt9497@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago

My sister (who was like my second mom and spoke English, unlike my parents) would ask me about what I was reading. It helps to take a little interest in your kids too.

[–] JustNilt@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago

Eh, I was using the bus to get to my town's local library when I was 9 years old. Granted that was a number of decades ago but the idea that a 10yo can't navigate a bus or just be close enough to walk is a little silly. (Edit: Not to imply I think that's a reason why we need to be overly concerned about what's age appropriate beyond laws relating to actual porn, mind.)

[–] cassowary_245@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago

Yeah it’s simple- who decides? The parent or guardian. If you don’t like a book for your child help them chose another

[–] InigoMontoya757@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago

At that age I could walk to the library. I grew up in a big city and didn't require a parent-chauffeur. (A good thing to, since my mother can't drive.)

[–] Mitthrawnuruo@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago

Do kids not have bicycles where you live? Feet?

I was a half dozen of miles away from My home at any given time….

[–] bigwilly311@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago

Every book is a children’s book if the kid can read

[–] LadybugGal95@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Well, I just added another book to my TBR. My grandma was the librarian when I was a kid. By age 12, I’d left the kid books in the dust. At that point, I’d read every Dean Koontz and John Saul book in the place. I’d tackled some of Robin Cook’s stuff and was making my way through Stuart Woods. The one and only time my grandmother ever came close to censoring what I read was in high school when I checked out Flowers in the Attic because everyone in school was talking about it. She didn’t bat and eye when I brought it up and checked it out to me. She couldn’t quite hold back the little mutter under her breath though. She said, “That woman is one sick puppy.” She let me have the book though and a couple more in the series afterward. Her little grumble was enough to clue me in that the relationships in the book were not normal which was all I needed to read the book in the right mindset.

Parents should have an idea what their kids are reading and be willing to talk about anything their kid comes to them with. If there’s something in a book that the parent thinks the kid needs some front loading on, they should do so in as brief a way as possible. There are very few books that should actually be denied to kids and those should just be a not yet rather than never.

[–] vibraltu@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I laughed aloud at her muttered comment. Just the right amount of inflection. Good.

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[–] AzureDreamer@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago (2 children)

I am against book banning bu6 I don't want a 10 year old access to a ton of damaging content.

The internet is bad enough, this is a hard nut to Crack but worthy of conversation.

[–] Mynsare@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago (2 children)

The question is what constitutes "damaging content"?

[–] D3athRider@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago

Whether it gets said or not, the vast majority of the time people talking about "age appropriateness" in books are against books that include critical discussion of racism/slavery/homophobia/transphobia/misogyny, or take an inclusive perspective on gender identity, unorthodox gender presentation, non-heterosexual sexuality, non-heterosexual families, and women's rights.

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[–] No_decent_usernames@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago (2 children)

this is a hard nut to Crack but worthy of conversation.

No, it really isn't. There's quite a simple solution that has been known for centuries.

Be an actual parent to your children.

You don't want your kid reading a book? Fine; don't let them. Don't force your bullshit on others.

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[–] noncedo-culli@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago

The parent who's with them. If you're worried about what your kid's reading then just check their books before they check out.

[–] NoMayoForReal@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago

Apparently stupid people that cannot read.

[–] gold_and_diamond@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago (2 children)

"They've told us here that 'Oh no, you can't have parents involved. You must have experts choosing books for the children,'" Harrison says. "That makes no sense. Parents are the primary stakeholders for children."

---- I love comments like these. I would bet any amount of money that at no point did a librarian or educator say "Oh no, you can't have parents involved." When I was a teacher, I would've given anything to have more parents involved.

[–] onefootinfront_@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I think about the parents running around and going to random libraries and board of education meetings in towns they don’t live in… there’s no way they are actually parenting their own kids well, right?

“Sorry honey, I can’t put you to bed again tonight. I have to drive three counties over to protest a book.”

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[–] Empty_Soup_4412@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago

I don't let my kids have library cards, problem solved!! /s/

I hate this book banning shit, it always goes too far. If you want to homeschool your kid into ignorance that's on you, leave the rest of us alone.

[–] Espron@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago

Moms for Liberty and conservative busybodies, that's who! /s

[–] Mike_Michaelson@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Local community standards, participants in the process who reflect these standards, and those placed in positions of power to enforce determinations are the ones who get to decide. It’s not very hard to figure out in a democracy. The standards of Montana can be different than California and one city in one county might have different standards than another in the same county. But no one in California should have a say in what books should or should not be in a library in Montana or vice versa. Let the communities in which these libraries are decide through the political process and debate what they put on their own shelves.

[–] kiltguy2112@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago (2 children)

The problem is that not everyone in Montana has the same standards. If you dislike a book that is in your local library, don't read it, but you have not right to have it removed so that others can read it.

[–] Mike_Michaelson@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago

Naw, courts have already determined the constitutionality of libraries being able to remove items based upon local community boards of education and boards of libraries who are open to influence by community groups. You may not like those who petition removal or libraries that remove, but none of it is illegal or undemocratic.

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[–] Aggressive_Chicken63@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago

IMO, publishers should. When they publish a book, they have an audience in mind. Just like movies we have PG-13 and stuff. Books should have the same rating, and we can put this silly stuff behind us.

[–] ragnarok62@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago (2 children)

A public library is just that: a public service facility. To that end, the local community sets the standards and the folks who run the library should ensure the catalog reflects the community standards. Different communities may have different standards. The local libraries should reflect those standards and abide by them.

This is how it has always worked, and it worked well. We need to stop trying to impose some kind of “one size fits all” mentality where the self-appointed power brokers of the coasts tell the rural folks in the Midwest that they suck because they don’t want their kids exposed to books they find objectionable. Likewise, the Midwesterners should not be telling the coast-dwellers how to stock their libraries.

[–] Catastrophicalbeaver@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago

folks who run the library should ensure the catalog reflects the community standards.

And what happens when said "community standards" are ultimately damaging, such as in this case?

[–] No_decent_usernames@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago (2 children)

To that end, the local community sets the standards and the folks who run the library should ensure the catalog reflects the community standards.

No thanks.

If we adhered to that standard, my local library would be nothing but Left Behind books, Christian romance novels, various bibles, and right wing political books.

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[–] RedfishSC2@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago

The average age of everyone in the pictures of the book banners has to be 70 or higher.

[–] pawned79@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

The point of all of this is to continue stigmatizing non-heterosexuality and transgender. If it is a banned topic, then something must be wrong with it, right? Something must be wrong with me for feeling how I feel, right?

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[–] ragnarok62@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago (4 children)

The question that never seems to get asked in any of this “censorship/ban” conversation: Why are authors of YA and child books writing books with such controversial content? Should they? And why are the publishers encouraging them?

This never used to be a problem because both authors and publishers just knew better than to “go there.” Now, it’s like a race to go there. Whatever restraint existed has been blown up, and it has left parents scrambling to hold back the flood when the authors and publishers used be the gatekeepers.

[–] Catastrophicalbeaver@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago

Why are authors of YA and child books writing books with such controversial content?

A better question would be to ask what makes them controversial according to some in the first place. YA means a young adult, so a teenager to someone in their early twenties. As such, YA books will naturally have content in them which said demographic finds relatable, including, you guessed it, sex (which in turn makes them "controversial)! This is only controversial because a loud group of people wish to be a moral police.

Should they?

Yes.

Why are the publishers encouraging them?

Publishers encourage authors to write books which make them money.

This never used to be a problem because both authors and publishers just knew better than to “go there

This part is just not true. In the US there have been moral outcries over literature targeted for kids or teenagers since mass publishing came into relevancy.

[–] D3athRider@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago

By "controversial content", do you mean the existence of queer and trans people in the world and an inclusive narrative?

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[–] Griffithead@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago

Dumbest shit ever.

Libraries determine what is available.

People determine what they check out.

[–] NoLemon5426@alien.top 1 points 9 months ago

The issue with letting the community have a free for all to come decide what a 13 year old should be reading is that these are the people who show up to such meetings of the mind. Pic from the article, which some of you haven't read. I don't think busybody boomers on a (usually faith based) moral purity mission should be the ones curating the selection in a public library, period.

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