this post was submitted on 07 Jul 2023
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Commentary: Longtime former Republican on Patrick Deneen and the demise of the conservative intellectual

top 35 comments
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[–] Nightwingdragon@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

This is incorrect.

There is a such thing as a "conservative intellectual". It's just that they've been long since drowned out by the rest of the party, and the right-wing voting base has no appetite for actual, sensible conservative policies right now.

[–] gAlienLifeform@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Go ahead and list an example of one of those past conservative intellectuals and we'll see how long it takes to dig up an example of them saying something like Civil Rights protesters are all secret communist agents or that child labor and vagrancy laws and debtors prisons are good things.

Like, I get the appeal in wanting to believe the other side is just as smart and well meaning as our side is, but there's just no basis for that in the historical record. They've always been like this and we just keep forgetting.

[–] Zorque@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

One can be an intellectual and still a huge piece of shit. Theyre not mutually exclusive. People like Milton Friedman or Henry Kissinger a undebatably intellectuals... but that doesn't mean they're angels. It just means they wield their intellect as a whip to beat their opponents with, rather than raising society as a whole.

Honestly this whole "conservatives are just a bunch of dumb rabid animals" is they exact sentiment they want us to feel. Because then we never look at the deeper issues that are actually affecting our world.

[–] sauerkraus@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

For example, Karl Marx. Clearly an intellectual as evidenced by his writings. But his colorblind/radical centrist take on minority rights fits right in with modern conservative extremists. And then the way he framed his opinions led to far right authoritarian regimes co-opting the label of communism.

[–] m532@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Muh nazis were akschually leftwing and communists rightwing... Typical nazi tactic

[–] sauerkraus@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

If you think that right wing authoritarianism is communism, I’ve got a democratic republic to sell. The only way tankie logic is consistent is if you believe that Nazis were socialists and North Korea is democratic. But somehow those are not true yet the USSR was communist? You gotta stop gulping down the imperialist propaganda. I could forgive someone for believing it during the Red Scare, but these days there’s no excuse.

Tankie apologetics are a farce.

[–] LexiconDexicon@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Is National Socialism not real socialism?

[–] sauerkraus@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Since you capitalised National Socialists like a proper noun I’ll assume you are referring to Nazis. The answer to that is yes, Nazis were not socialists. Socialists were among the first groups targeted by the Nazis after attaining majority power.

A bit like how communists were oppressed in the USSR, or how democrats are oppressed in North Korea.

The U.S. was more than happy to conflate Marxist-Leninists(tankies) with communists because it made communists look bad. Tankies are all in on continuing to conflate their own ideology with communism because they understand that being proud of right wing extremist ideology is a bad look.

[–] m532@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 year ago

Yankeeland is the most fash country, but the fash dont wanna be called fash, so they call the nonwesterners fash. Typical racist tactic.

[–] m532@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 year ago

You are the imperialist here, yankee. Did you send tanks into iraq, huh? Will you call me a judeo-bolshevik now?

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Name one conservative policy that has furthered mankind. Prohibition, voting rights, sexuality, drug war, terrorism; time after time they’ve been wrong. Even fiscally they run up the deficit. Their only role is to preserve hierarchy and maintain power

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

George W Bush massively expanded US Free Trade agreements. We went from 3 to 16 under his admin. That's good for the entire world.

Pretty much the only thing I don't like about Biden is his protectionist stance.

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I’m gonna assume you think Capitalist expansion and colonialism is a good thing.

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The former, yes, the latter I bet we have significant disagreements on the definition of

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Tangentially, if you’re interested in rabbit holes, there’s a book by Matt Kennard called Silent Coup that deals with corporate influence over trade, it looks at the agreements countries have to sign to get corporations into their countries.

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm well aware of this process and support it. Countries are welcome to make any deals they'd like. They're presumably intelligent, independent entities making decisions in their own best interest.

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So you’re in favor of BRICS and the devaluation of the petrodollar, if those countries choose to do that?

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I recognize their right and potential desire to do it, but I think the likely economic responses and ensuing global downturn isn't worth the eventual possible payoff for them

As an example of an actual unpopular opinion I have, I think it's good that countries sell Nestle their water rights and then buy water back from them, if it results in a large enough economic impact for their nation.

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Maybe they did the maths and think it’s worth it. The “PetroYuan” sounds weird

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I am quite confident that the dollar will remain the world currency, likely until we move to a single world currency in the far future.

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You don’t think Nestle or other corporations ever do wrong? Maybe your friends think they do

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Everyone does wrong at some point, including all businesses. Corporations aren't monoliths

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So it’s okay if Nestle exploits an entire community as long as it serves the greater good?

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If Nestle bought the property to your town’s water supply, and sold it back to you for a profit, that would still be for the greater good?

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If it means jobs at Nestle, income for the government from a large corporation that otherwise wouldn't exist in a developing nation, and increased standard of living nationwide? Yes, absolutely.

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] SCB@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ah yes, supporting one act certainly means I support all acts.

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The subject was Nestle, you replied that you would support them despite crimes; ie, you support child slavery. Just read about it man. Yes, I’m a degenerate, idiot , fuckup of a man; and should probably suffer and die a horrible death. Just learn.

[–] SCB@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I know more than you, and yet have not insulted you at all. You made that up

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You think because you have an unpopular opinion, your friends are wrong, never trying to understand why. I was self deprecating to disarm your ego, to no avail. Everyone else is wrong, you are right. Now convince your friends that Nestle is the pinnacle of the free market. Good luck.

[–] SCB@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago

everyone else is wrong. You are right

I corrected your comma splice in the quote but yes, generally. It's a consequence of actually looking things up all the time

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sorry, replies are not working right. It is all my fault, all of it. Sometimes people do the the wrong thing, we’re not monoliths.

[–] SCB@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago

See you're catching on!