Technology
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Obsidian is great; I was a happy user for a couple years. But I recently switched to Logseq and I think I'm already liking it more, and it's because of something Logseq doesn't do.
Obsidian lets you write a full markdown file, so step one is deciding how to write something down. Is it a nested list? Or a table? Or headings and subheadings with paragraphs?
In Logseq, everything is a nested list. This feels like a limitation, but I've been preferring it. The decision is made for you: you're going to jot this information down as a list. So then you just start writing it.
People often tout that Logseq is open source, and while that is great, IMO there is also a design consideration that makes it better. Pretty much any kind of information you want to write down can be represented as a nested list. Doing it that way keeps everything simple, consistent, and more searchable. (Logseq's built-in querying feature seems to be more powerful than Obsidian's Dataview plugin, although I can't say much about it since I haven't really played with it yet.)
Both Obsidian and Logseq save (kinda) standard markdown files, so if you spend a lot of time in a plain text editor, you can still use that. You don't lose anything by editing a file in a separate editor -- they will both parse and re-index the file next time you view it in the respective app.
Logseq is the only note taking system that has clicked with me, by lowering the mental overhead at the time of adding notes. I just throw it in there without any considerations while still feeling like it's not going to get lost. Later I may revisit the day's journal and add tags or connect other information, move a block into its own page, etc.
In Logseq, everything is a nested list. This feels like a limitation, but I’ve been preferring it. The decision is made for you: you’re going to jot this information down as a list. So then you just start writing it.
Oh - this sounds interesting.
Whenever I needed to jot down any notes I've been finding myself just writing plain .txt files with bullet points, and trying tools like Obsidian or TiddlyWiki I always ended up being overwhelmed with the amount of stuff I could do (and with all the customization options) that I never got around to actually writing things down. I'm definitely gonna look into how Logseq works.
(Although I have to say, their website does look a bit "too hype-y" for my liking. IDK how to explain it, just a gut feeling. Still, at least it's FOSS so it can't be too bad)
The website also put me off, I only kept at it because my partner was already using it and it looked solid enough. I even asked "Are you sure this is the logseq? It looks so...idk Marketing?"
But so far I just seem to use it a lot, and the more I use it the more useful I find it, especially after learning how to add tags (didn't seem particularly obvious in the docs), and after finally getting into the flow of using Syncthing.
In Logseq, everything is a nested list. This feels like a limitation, but I’ve been preferring it. The decision is made for you: you’re going to jot this information down as a list. So then you just start writing it.
I really appreciate you posting this. I'm a long-time Obsidian user, and an Evernote user before that, and I never "got" Logseq. I just couldn't understand what people saw in an app that didn't let you "write" anything. I've tried to start using Logseq so many times and just given up because the interface made no sense.
Thanks to your comment I finally get it! I prefer to be using something open-source, so I'm going to give Logseq another go, now that I finally understand it, and see how that approach feels.
my situation is very similar to yours; I was previously an obsidian user but then switched to logseq for everything. I really wonder why logseq website doesn't hype up the fact that it's an outliner, because imo that's what sets it apart from similar programs. I didn't even know what an outliner was until recently
Trilium for a database and therefore faster method that is actually foss.
Obsidian is reaching market criticality so I'm expecting enshitification any time now.
Obsidian is reaching market criticality so I’m expecting enshitification any time now.
You could be right, but I'm not 100% sure of that. From the article:
Keeping the team small and spurning outside investment is Obsidian’s way of avoiding incentives that might lead the company astray.
If they can stick to that, they can avoid going downhill. The main driver for enshittification is big shareholders that want the company to keep growing -- shareholders don't care about stable profitability, they need growth for their ownership stake to increase in value. If Obsidian is profitable now and they're fine with just keeping it that way, they can make it work.
The driver of enshittification is extracting money from your user base and investors alike. Lacking one doesn't stop it.
If I was going to trust obsidian, their code would be fully foss. Since it isn't, there is nothing future proofing my notes in their software. Might as well switch now to something which largely works better and is more feature rich.
Might as well switch now to something which largely works better and is more feature rich.
Which is relative to personal taste and needs.
If I was going to trust obsidian, their code would be fully foss.
I definitely agree that I wish it was fully foss, but i also think it is a far better option than notion, onenote, etc for most people (as long as it meets their needs and preferences) since with obsidian you do actually own your data and you don't need to pay unless you want their sync.
Since it isn't, there is nothing future proofing my notes in their software.
Even if, worst case, Obsidian enshitifies, all the notes are markdown or json (json for config and things that don't work in markdown, but the community and the devs work hard to keep that to a minimum) so you can still access your stuff in any text editor and it will be fairly easy to get the important data migrated into anything else. (I often use vs code to manage my notes, for instance, esp for big find and replace or re-org tasks) Even the non-standard markdown from obsidian and the most popular plugins reads well and could fairly easily be replicated with remarked or other markdown libraries. In this way, i think Obsidians approach is far superior to a tool which uses a database to store its data, since a database would require some effort to use standalone, or some work to migrate it to another tool or some sort of minimal client interface.
By its design, Obsidian could also be replaced by reverse engineering their api. If obsidian takes the dark path, we will probably see a foss community grow from the plugin dev community to replace it and be as compatible with plugins as possible, even if its just the basic text and display components. Tbh, it could totally be a vs code plugin, an emacs mode, [insert any text editor with plugins here]... thats how portable the data is. The obsidian devs know this, and they are intentional about staying this way. A shift in attitude here would be noticed by the community very quickly.
It's completely markdown which is future-proof and easily portable to other software
I've recently switched from Notion to Obsidian (almost anyway). But I still have to find a good way to sync. I tried nextcloud, but I couldn't get two way sync to work on mobile. I feel like €10,- a month for just sync is a bit much, and it (partly) defeats the idea of "the files are mine".
I wish the official sync software was available for self hosting (ie as a Docker container). Maybe even against a one time fee?
What solutions do others here use for syncing?
I use syncthing, it is great for folder syncthing between multiple devices and no "server" needed
SyncThing is fantastic; I use it for Obsidian files and also for password manager databases.
Pros:
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bullet proof
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Simple
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FOSS
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Selfhosted
Cons:
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password/secrets manager nearly required to setup new devices
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fails to make my morning coffee
I just keep my vault in Dropbox and use Dropbox sync for Android to keep it working on my phone.
Syncthing. Works really good for paying nothing.
If you’re in the Apple ecosystem, you can toss your vault into iCloud Drive. If you’re technically proficient (and brave) you can write a cron to sync into whichever service you want via a local machine.
In addition to iCloud, I have a one-way sync (rsync) which functions as a poor man’s backup to get all my files into Dropbox; lots of stern warnings from Obsidian not to use Dropbox.
They make some great RPGs ;P
Literally what I thought when I first saw the headline.
I love it, but I wish it were open source. I have since switched to LogSeq, and now I'm even trying out TiddlyWiki.
Oh boy. Weve all been there.
Stay hydrated.
I downloaded obsidian, but I haven't used it yet because I'm intimidated and don't know where to start. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Same for me. I got some plugins too, people say they're a must, but they have their own tutorials almost. But one day I'll try it
You can use without plugins as well, they are not a must. I've been using Obsidian for years just for it's inter-connected markdown references. Kind of like a wiki, I'm just taking markdown notes and sometimes create a link to another related note. Also, good at handling attachments and embeds. I haven't used anything else (maybe tags nowadays... But that's it) Thing is, if you like markdown then you should give it a go.
Nice app, like the idea of it being just plain text, but will stick to one note myself. The synch service is a must for me, and don't want to pay for another service, when onenote and onedrive synch all that I need.
An interesting app nevertheless and am sure will suit many users.
There's lots of alternate, free and open source syncing solutions. I use syncthing myself.
Like another person said, many ways to sync. I use Resilio personally and love it.
Obsidian is the best thing I've been able to find for my use case. I'm able to fudge collaboration for the things I need by using separate files and dataview to combine. As soon as someone comes out with an open source alternative that has plaintext storage, local-first editing, and live collaboration, I'm switching to that.
Joplin user here. What does obsidian have that I might want? I remember briefly trying it years ago and disliking it.
Joplin stores its files inside a database. Obsidian stores all notes as individual plaintext Markdown files.
In the first instance, that's clearly more future-proof and robust - your notes are immediately available in any application without a layer of abstraction. You can't have a single file corrupt and destroy all your notes.
I vastly prefer it for that reason. I want to know these notes are still going to work fine in 10 years, and be easily accessible.
I use Joplin for a simple notes app mostly for my phone but I do have it on my desktop and sync. What I do not use it for is my desktop notes collection which is a several thousand notes pages some quite big. I use Zim for that. It is a desktop Wiki.
I do not use Obsidian but it seems like knowledge base and linking is what people rave about. These are the ways in which I use Zim for example.
I enjoy using Obsidian, mostly because it's faster than Notion, and it's one of the few Notion alternatives that has good and fast table editing support.
Better table editing than many other markdown editors, but I wouldn't call it very good for a note taking app.
May I offer that it really depends on your note-taking style? I’ve been using it since July having come from linear note-taking on Cornell NTS. It’s way faster and much more interlocked once you get past the slight learning curve.
I’d love to get into using Obsidian but it overwhelms me and freaks me out and also I just don’t know how to best utilize it for my personal work cases…I.e, how to blend professional/personal/creative uses into one all in app experience with Obsidian.
I use foam for vscode. Works great, is codium compatible, and is open source
I use it to keep track of my dinosaur breeding on ark survival evolved
I love the idea of it, but it hasn't clicked yet. It never occurs to me to even tag things in order to leverage my notes as a mind map/second brain.
The absence of a clean means of using it from multiple devices and syncing between them without their cloud service is kind of disappointing. The git community plugin is godawful to set up on mobile/tablet, something native that handles git behind the scenes would be excellent.
Ultimately, what I'd like is obsidian but with the interface of confluence.
On the topic of note taking programms.
Is there anything like onenote that is linux compatible, especially for handwritten notes? The closest in regards to decent handwriting support I could find was xournal++ but that felt kind of limiting to me especially without the infinite canvas and the ability to switch notes within the program (think onenote sidebar)
There really isn't. I hunted for a while before I gave up and bought an android tablet for hand writing notes.
Tried it, felt it was too limited with just markdown. Feature wise i prefer Notion, but i don't like it's ongoing feature creep with AI implementation or it's pricing model.
So if there's any note taking apps out there with a database page type or proper tables, do let me know.