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‘No control’: Sweden grapples with bomb violence wave (www.euractiv.com)
submitted 5 days ago by CAVOK@lemmy.world to c/europe@feddit.org
24 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson admitted that his government has lost control over a burgeoning wave of violence sweeping the country, amid escalating public concern.

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[–] Lumiluz@slrpnk.net 28 points 5 days ago (4 children)

Further recent measures taken to tackle Swedish gang violence a proposal to amend the country's constitution to strip dual nationals of their citizenship if convincted of involvement in gang crime.

Oh yes, that'll be very effective against the also significant racist gang percentage composed entirely of native Swedes that the far right parties over there aren't stoking on /s

Only enough space in Sweden for the Snus rotters after all.

Funny how Sweden didn't have these issues of gang minorities until they started passing more discriminatory policies against minorities years ago. I'm sure that didn't have any affect on things now.

Both Finland and Sweden have taken migrants over the years but only one has the severe problem, wonder whyyyy /S

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 23 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (4 children)

Funny how Sweden didn’t have these issues of gang minorities until they started passing more discriminatory policies against minorities years ago.

The problems started with de facto housing segregation, more like at least a decade or two ago, similar overall (but less intentional) as France and its Banlieue. They built housing that was unpopular with native Swedes for the simple reason of being in the wrong place, and if you, back then, said "wait this might cause trouble maybe we should take more care to mix people up, somehow" well you didn't because Swedes suck at complaining. Muttering at the kitchen table, sure, but publicly? Heavens, that would disturb social cohesion.

Thus the segregation issue wasn't nipped in the bud, or at least in early flower, as many other countries did, so it festered into lack of perspective and inclusion, and then it burst and you got angry kids on the one side and the Sweden Democrats on the one side and let's not forget the likes of Iran literally paying kids to kill people to make the situation even worse because Iran has a chip on their shoulder over Swedes being, on the international stage, arrogant, self-righteous, know-it-all swots.

[–] unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 11 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Yeah this is what people often miss. Its okay and good to realize when certain groups are more violent, because that usually isnt entirely their fault, but rather the fault of the people forcing them to live in slums or otherwise bad conditions. But even just one layer of meta analysis is too much for many people i think.

[–] meldrik@lemmy.wtf 9 points 5 days ago (1 children)

You are the product of your environment. So if you are placed in an environment that has violent tendencies, there’s a good chance you end up violent as well.

[–] shaserlark@sh.itjust.works 5 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Grew up like this in some godforsaken place where no one wanted to live somewhere in Europe and I’m still in therapy because of that. Had to realize that I grew up experiencing extreme verbal and physical violence. I personally grew up thinking that’s normal and everyone experiences it until I started therapy and realized how crazy the things were that I saw and experienced. When I met people of “my“ culture for the first time who just moved to my place I didn’t understand why they were so different than the people I grew up with (talking about the kids & teenagers here).

[–] troed@fedia.io 8 points 5 days ago

Swedes being, on the international stage, arrogant, self-righteous, know-it-all swots.

We're damn proud of it, too! It's just a fact. Swedes are the best, and Sweden is the best country on Earth.

/Swede

[–] GissaMittJobb@lemmy.ml 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

They built housing that was unpopular with native Swedes for the simple reason of being in the wrong place,

Is this really accurate? My understanding has been that Miljonprogrammet-units were not at all unpopular at the time of construction, and that their desirability with Swedes who could afford otherwise dropped at a later time, once the lack of maintenance (often due to selloffs to slumlords) caused the areas to deteriorate. Combine this with these areas basically being the only option if you are an immigrant with no means to purchase a co-op apartment or house, and this naturally leads to the type of concentrated segregation we see today.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 0 points 4 days ago

The Miljonprogrammet was before the wave of arrivals, from the analysis I read (please don't ask me for a source it's been years) the initial problem areas were actually new green-field social housing projects, built way later while the older areas were run-down, but had a maybe precarious but not atrociously so socio-economic mix. The perfectly integrated immigrant kids there then found themselves de-integrated by their fellow Swedes, suddenly not part of civil society any more, as shit hit the fan among kids 20+ years younger elsewhere. And there's only so much instilling of Swedish values you can do when the rest of your country turned your back on you, so a bunch of the older housing projects went from precarious to shit.

Anyhow the main point, the main issue, is still that Swedes, as a society, suck at complaining while considering themselves infallible.

[–] guy@piefed.social 0 points 5 days ago (2 children)

The problems started with de facto housing segregation, more like at least a decade or two ago

In the 90's when a law was passed to allow immigrants to settle wherever they wanted. Imagine moving to a new country where you don't speak the language but there's a place that have plenty of countrymen living. I'd settle there of course, and the segregation is a fact

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 8 points 5 days ago

You don't necessarily need such law to avoid these issues, there's urban planning considerations that naturally mix people up, for starters, don't put all social housing in one place, and, if at all possible, I prefer that kind of nudging over hard laws. It's having neither that is a recipe for disaster.

[–] troed@fedia.io 2 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Swedes do the same - and then brag about how they in their retirement home in Spain can speak Swedish all the time with other Swedes and Swede-run stores

[–] guy@piefed.social 2 points 3 days ago

Indeed, which obviously add to my point about how you settle close to people that speaks the same language or have similar cultural tendencies as you

[–] GissaMittJobb@lemmy.ml 7 points 4 days ago

Funny how Sweden didn't have these issues of gang minorities until they started passing more discriminatory policies against minorities years ago. I'm sure that didn't have any affect on things now.

I don't think any of those policies moved the needle in any way, shape or form with regards to gang violence.

Gang violence is the outcome of a multi-decade housing policy that has created the areas from where gang violence has sprung. This is where the root cause lies, and neither left nor right has made any meaningful progress on improving this issue.

[–] CAVOK@lemmy.world 9 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (3 children)

Both Finland and Sweden have taken migrants over the years but only one has the severe problem, wonder whyyyy /S

Very different amounts though. In 2020 you had 2,5 million "foreign born" citizens in Sweden, or 25%. Compared to 400.000 in Finland, or about 7%.

Edit: Apparenty 2million and 20%. Thanks https://lemmy.world/u/troed@fedia.io

[–] Lumiluz@slrpnk.net 1 points 4 days ago

You could compare Sweden to other countries that also don't have the problem and took in many migrants.

The issue Sweden has is in part from racism and segregation rather than any attempt at integration and acceptance.

And now they are experiencing the issue of their own making.

[–] jenesaisquoi@feddit.org 0 points 4 days ago

Switzerland has 30% foreigners and no such problems.

[–] Murvel@lemm.ee 2 points 4 days ago

Finland has taken nowhere near the amount of immigrants Sweden has.

You simply are pathetically ignorant unfortunately.

[–] CAVOK@lemmy.world 9 points 5 days ago

Paywall? https://archive.is/2mRGr

[–] AI_toothbrush@lemmy.zip -3 points 4 days ago (3 children)

For people who wanna know this is all swedens fault. They put the migrants who couldnt speak swedish into neighbourhoods that were already full of marginalised swedes and finns. Now its at the point where they speak a mixture of turkish, arabic, swedish, english, etc and even in the schools there arent enough swedish speakers so the kids also learn this language instead of the "proper swedish". This all couldve been avoided if the immigrants warent segregated basically. I live in a city where its about 30-40% immigrants(including me) and almost everything is completely normal and everyone is integrated. Its possibly to take on this many immigrants, you just have to do it properly.

[–] Murvel@lemm.ee 9 points 4 days ago

The immigrants were free to move wherever they pleased. They gathered among themselves. Many immigrants have never had and will never have any intention of leaving their culture behind and integrate.

This is not the fault of us Swedes, and your accusation is unjust. The only blame here is the nativité to think that people migrating had any actual want to be here.

[–] CAVOK@lemmy.world 7 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Just to be clear, Sweden didn't "put" immigrants anywhere. They were free to settle wherever they wanted and chose to live next to people they knew and shared a culture with.

Perhaps it's Sweden had decided where immigrants could and could not live, things would be different.

[–] Murvel@lemm.ee 4 points 4 days ago

I agree, and clearly, he doesn't know what he's talking about.

[–] jeena@piefed.jeena.net 1 points 4 days ago

The segregation in Sweden is real and extreme like you mention.

Back in 2005 I moved to Sweden from Germany because my wife back then was Swedish. We had to move to one of those places where there were mostly immigrants, especially when it came to the children. Our doughter always spoke Swedish but sometimes she would come home from the playground and ask us why she doesn't speak Albanian, all the other children speak Albanian.

Anyway, the school she was supposed to go to was more than 50℅ migrants. This was when even I as a migrant said we need to move her to the neighboring school, even if it 10 more minutes to walk every time, because there are much less migrants there. So yeah even I added to the problem of segregation. It's tough to follow your good intentioned principals when it affects your own child in a bad way.