this post was submitted on 11 Dec 2024
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[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 96 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

Americans: It's all that gosh-darn SOCIALISM that's causing this mess! Because socialism is when all the rich fat cats at the top keep all the earnings for themselves. Fucking dirtbag woke socialists!


And no lessons were learned that day.

Even Mangione has proved undoubtedly that he doesn't entirely understand the very issue that radicalized him. (If he isn't just a patsy, of course)

[–] lukes26@lemm.ee 51 points 1 week ago

I think he's just kinda an ordinary person who grew up privileged. He has fairly standard techbro style libertarian beliefs, but he also has criticisms of some of the influencers he watches, and didn't seem to like Peterson very much. He also seems to be an environmentalist, and I think he seemed to have become more anti-corporation based on the manifesto released (obviously assuming he did it).

Him being a privileged but ordinary guy who still got radicalized reflects a lot more strongly on the plight of everyone who isn't one of the owner class. It doesn't matter that he was relatively wealthy, he still wasn't one of them.

[–] papalonian@lemmy.world 14 points 1 week ago (1 children)

What information has come out that makes you say the last paragraph? I'm not doubting it's validity in the slightest (I don't think this guy is exactly an infallible source of wisdom), just haven't seen a lot directly from him that would flesh his views out that much.

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 28 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

He was pretty pro-Musk and pro-Peter Thiel and certainly wasn't a paragon of leftist thought. While being decently educated and well traveled, he seemed to have a lot of faith in technolibertarian ideals.

I'd say that's clear from his Twitter and Reddit histories. It doesn't mean he's a frothing-at-the-mouth MAGA nut, but it also doesn't mean he's a dyed-in-the-wool leftist who understands the issues.

Further, like most people, he only became radicalized when a serious injury impacted his own life. It didn't make him question the whole system of capitalism, just healthcare.

And all that's fine and not meant to be an indictment one way or another about the guy, but more it's meant to point out that like most Americans, he's seemingly a little confused about larger issues. Which also makes sense since he's only 26, learning about it all takes time.

Finally, I'm still not 100% convinced a bunch of this is just contrived police bullshit to pin it on a patsy, and that's why his motives seem confused. Although I wouldn't be surprised if he's just lacking education and confused, like most Americans.

[–] granolabar@kbin.melroy.org 8 points 1 week ago

he seemed to have a lot of faith in technolibertarian ideals.

he did not site musk in the supposed "manifesto".

he did site some other people, not sure who. i think that would more indicative on his position.

i have hard time believing any of this but this he is alt right narrative is secondary to his act of revolt. it aint like he can do the entire capitalist in one job. he picked his target and simple, direct message.

[–] rbn@sopuli.xyz 68 points 1 week ago (3 children)

I know it's probably a bit exaggerated on purpose but also in European countries it's definitely not zero. We are in a significantly better situation than the US, that's fot sure. Our problems aren't remotely comparable. But also here, it can happen that certain treatments aren't covered, also here there are (few) people without health insurance and also here people can lose their job or never find a job in the first place due to illness related issues or disabilities.

As said, much better but also definitely not 0.

[–] kuberoot@discuss.tchncs.de 12 points 1 week ago (5 children)

There's also the issue of waiting times - you might need care somewhat urgently, but need to either wait for multiple months or pay (or hope that when the issue becomes more immediately life-threatening they can handle it in time). Public healthcare isn't perfect, and at least in many places still needs a lot of work.

[–] usrtrv@sh.itjust.works 31 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I always dislike this take because it pretends the US doesn't have this exact issue. I've known people with less than ideal insurance who had very few doctors to pick from in-network and would take months to get an appointment.

Long wait times still happens in the US. Just like it can happen in public healthcare.

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[–] jessca@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Pedant rant:

I take issue with 'needs a lot of work', though it is common phrasing. It promotes the false idea that 'business is more efficient' by making it sound like the public administrators are too dumb to know how to do their job.

The real issue, in most jurisdictions, is that it needs more and stable funding, and less political interference.

[–] CleoTheWizard@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Well that and not to mention that politicians abroad do the exact same thing they do in the US. I know the British for instance have a Conservative Party that have repeatedly attacked their healthcare system in order to make privatized insurance seem better.

And then the issues caused by a lack of funding get used in the US to say “SEE! This system doesn’t work!”

Which is the logical equivalent of watching your friend baking pies with not enough filling and deciding to instead pay 4x the price for a pie that you won’t even get your promised slice of. Oh and the pie you get occasionally is made with the meat of other people who were also promised a pie and paid for it.

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[–] HoneyMustardGas@lemmy.world 33 points 1 week ago (5 children)

So, no one in those countries became homeless and bankrupt because of an illness and lost their job? I am asking genuinely because I wouldn't know.

[–] cRazi_man@lemm.ee 51 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (7 children)

This is hyperbole. Healthcare cost might be covered, but there are a lot more expenses with being sick. Social support and housing support in the UK is laughable. Good luck if you cant work because of disability. The hospital will keep you alive.....and then discharge you to the street.

Still better than America though.

[–] ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 17 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

True ... even here in Canada social systems are not as good as they could be ... but imagine trying to access shitty social services AND PAYING FOR MEDICAL SERVICES... or worse being in over your head because of medical debt!

[–] Soup@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Met a homeless guy once who had had his jaw broken over some change. Even he was able to go to the hospital to get fixed up. It didn’t solve his myriad other problems but at least even he could get that taken care of.

Any system which would have turned him away should be burned to the ground and the people who built said system should have the flesh flayed from their bones, slowly.

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[–] shrodes@lemmy.world 14 points 1 week ago

No, it’s an exaggaration. According to StreetSmart Australia 14% of people became homeless due to becoming unemployed suddenly

With that said we do have MUCH better social welfare programs here in Australia than the US, though there is always more that could be done

[–] shittydwarf@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

When my dad was diagnosed with late stage prostate cancer they assembled a team for him, got him all the tests and scans and began treatment essentially immediately. Uncle with leukaemia was basically the same experience. He had a bone marrow transplant in addition to all the regular chemo stuff. Total bill came to $0 but they do gouge you for parking. Need a joint replacement? You're gonna have to wait, but for life and death you get the treatment you need pretty quick

[–] pennomi@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago

You have to wait in the US too, but we pretend our times are better.

[–] drkt@scribe.disroot.org 6 points 1 week ago

Danish healthcare is covered but good luck getting any treatment

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[–] ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 29 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Americans: ... OH YEAH! .... now lets count how many Aircraft Carriers each country has!! ... U! ... S! ... A! ......... U! ... S! ... A! ........ U! ... S! ... A! ..... pulls a muscle from over exerting themselves, has to go to the hospital and pay for treatment

[–] Remotedeck@discuss.tchncs.de 16 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

They want to have the freedom to be able to pay for treatment

[–] ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 12 points 1 week ago

It's a free country ... as long as you can afford it

.... and also ...

“That's why they call it the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it.” - George Carlin

[–] FundMECFSResearch@lemmy.blahaj.zone 26 points 1 week ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (33 children)

I know it would be covenient to accept this meme as true, but it very much isn’t.

Just like insurance companies in the US don’t cover everything you need, sometimes even lifesaving treatment, the same (though less extreme) happens in nearly all public health systems.

I say this as someone who has gone through this and become tubefed and deaf as a result.

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[–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 21 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (5 children)

I mean there's definitely people who go bankrupt due to not being able to work due to illness. If you're a private entrepreneur (or what's the correct term E; self-employed was what I meant) for example then that stuff can take you down easily.

[–] Nalivai@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Maybe meme should've specified personal bankruptcy

[–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 0 points 6 days ago

If you're self-employed entrepreneur then it'd be a personal bankruptcy most of the time in Finland. Having an LLC or such thing for such use isn't common.

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[–] DiagnosedADHD@lemmy.world 20 points 1 week ago (2 children)

It's almost like .. universal healthcare would make our economy stronger and the insurance companies are the leaches..

[–] dan@upvote.au 14 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

Some people don't want universal health care because they don't want their taxes going towards other people's health care. What they seem to fail to understand is that the exact same thing happens with private health insurance, and some of the money goes towards the insurance company's profits. Universal health care would make things cheaper.

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[–] tfw_no_toiletpaper@lemmy.world 13 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

Lol there are definitely treatments that are very expensive and not covered by some insurances. This is not a "statistic", just opinion. USA has it way worse of course. But I remember my dad having to lend money from friends because some of my mom's cancer treatments were not covered.

Edit: Also wtf why is this in shitpost

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[–] 1985MustangCobra@lemmy.ca 10 points 1 week ago (1 children)

OK, i need to chime in here, there is illness related work loss here in Canada. Also, you can go bankrupt from dental work if you cannot afford dental insurance or your job doesn't offer it (which most jobs that are not union/higher corp don't). You can literally die from poor dental hygiene, and even if you brush your teeth every day and floss, that doesn't mean your scott free from visiting the dentist.

[–] nepenthes@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

In it's first three months, Canada's new Dental care plan has 75% of dentists signed up and 2.3m people.

As part of a phased rollout, the government began accepting claims for dental coverage for seniors in May and expanded eligibility to children under the age of 18 and Canadians with a valid Disability Tax Credit certificate in June.

Remaining eligible Canadians are scheduled to gain access in 2025.

Source: https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/we-ve-seen-an-explosion-75-per-cent-of-canadian-dental-care-providers-now-partaking-in-federal-plan-1.6991335

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[–] BlueMagma@sh.itjust.works 9 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (5 children)

I don't know about the other countries, but In France there definitely still are problems, check this recent story https://www.lanouvellerepublique.fr/a-la-une/on-lui-refuse-l-acces-aux-urgences-elle-accouche-sur-le-parking-de-l-hopital

A pregnant women was refused entrance to a private hospital she was forced to give birth on the parking lot in front of the entrance.

Sure the USA have an awful system but it doesn't mean it's perfect everywhere else. There are people that are bankrupt because of medical treatment here too. And we also have corrupt CEOs making it worse

Every country needs a Luigi.

[–] victorz@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

USA have an awful system but it doesn't mean it's perfect everywhere else

I don't think that's the message in this post either, so... The message is, it's just far, far worse with the system they have, due to all healthcare being privatized.

At least that is my understanding. 🤷‍♂️

[–] BlueMagma@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Yes of course,

I replied to this post because it is one of many making bold claims about healthcare in other countries than the US, most of the times claims about European countries healthcare made by US users are false and/or misleading.

Sure the US has a very bad system, I see it and recognize how bad it is, but it's a tad annoying to see stuff like that, that falsely say we have "0" bankruptcy or that "everything" is covered by public healthcare, that our life expectancy is that much higher, etc... Most claims are unsourced and blatantly false or largely inflated for shock value.

In France for example we have many issues with our public healthcare, not everything is covered (dental isn't for example), we aren't covered for the full amount unless we pay for private coverage on top (called "mutuelle") which often are linked to your employer, we have to pay up front and then get reimbursed later, geographically there are areas with very few hospitals, the poorer often can't afford to be sick because we aren't always automatically paid for sick days at work, there's a shortage of medical fields' workers, and our current political leaders have been making it worse for decades..

All that to say that from the perspective of a "European" citizen, these posts about the US system compared with ours feels like propaganda that "we should be happy with what we have" even though we really shouldn't, using false information.

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[–] Railcar8095@lemm.ee 4 points 1 week ago (3 children)

I don't speak French. Why didn't she go to the public one? Why was she forced to give birth on the parking? Why not call an ambulance?

Unpopular opinion incoming: I can understand if they didn't allow her in in a PRIVATE one if she was not covered.

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[–] werefreeatlast@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago

That's an easy 6 billion profit! Just pick them up in an ambulance and have them overnight for an upset stomach ulcer.

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