this post was submitted on 23 Nov 2024
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[–] veganpizza69@lemmy.world 1 points 9 minutes ago

I'm vegan btw

[–] Kaelygon@lemmy.world 1 points 12 minutes ago

I once made the mistake googling easy mode for Elden ring that someone gifted to me. Once I saw the gatekeeping on Reddit, I decided it's not a game for me and uninstalled. I'm sorry that I suck at video games

[–] RenegadeTwister@lemmy.dbzer0.com -2 points 48 minutes ago

Why stop there, though? Some of those big weights at the gym are way too hard to lift. They should have an easy mode that lets people lift weights labeled a heavy weight but are actually made of foam. Or in school, if someone can't grasp a difficult concept, there should be an easy mode that just gives them the answer.

You want to feel alienation? But isn't this what you are already experiencing?

As for the bait: I don't need easy mode, I don't want easy mode; but it really isn't my decision.

[–] Simulation6@sopuli.xyz -1 points 1 hour ago

Souls games just require patience, you can get better. It's the stupidly complex games I have trouble with. Games like BG3 are like taking freshmen chemistry again. Too much effort trying to figure out whats going on.

[–] LongboardingLad@lemmy.world 16 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

All of the Souls games kinda have an easy mode baked in. Ranged weapons/Sorceries generally provide an easier experience. Honestly though, I just find I don't really care if there is an easy mode or not. I enjoyed the challenge and if a difficulty slider was added, it would not have detracted from my experience in the slightest. I played through the games for the challenge and I enjoyed it immensely. If someone else doesn't enjoy the challenge, then that's okay. I'm not going to gatekeep them. We're all SunBro's at our core and I will always drop my Summon Sign for others in need to find

[–] luciferofastora@lemmy.zip 3 points 5 hours ago

Praise the Sun, my friend

[–] MilitantAtheist@lemmy.world 0 points 2 hours ago

Hard games should be hard. Welcome to Tarkov

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 37 points 8 hours ago (4 children)

All difficult games should have an easy mode for accessibility.

Signed, a Dark Souls enjoyer.

[–] nyctre@lemmy.world 2 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Sucks for console users. On PC there are trainers.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 1 points 1 hour ago

It's one of the reasons I got my grandparents to transition from consoles to PC. I knew how to fiddle with PC games to make things easier on them.

Still, oftentimes I would end up sending an email of thanks to a dev of some sort, usually along the lines of "I know this isn't your target audience, but thank you so much for putting in native controller support/UI scaling/story mode/etc in, being able to get this working for my grandparents is a big joy in their lives."

[–] Hazzard@lemm.ee 13 points 7 hours ago (5 children)

Honestly... I disagree. What is accessibility? Every souls game has been beaten with dance pads, rock band drum kits and guitars. They're also frequently beaten by people with serious disabilities using specialized controllers. Input speed is not an issue here, Souls has always been about carefully choosing your moves to manage the end lag and stamina cost of your actions. It's about making the right move, not about moving quickly or pressing a lot of buttons at once.

IMHO, accessibility is frequently cited as an excuse for lower difficulties here, when in reality the difficulty isn't a serious part of the barrier for disabled players. It could use better accessibility options, like configurable colourblind modes, audio indicators, more configurable text size, some kind of clear colour indicators on attacks for low vision, but difficulty? No.

There are also lots of good reasons not to add explicit difficulty options, which is y'know, why From Soft haven't done it yet.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 17 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Accessibility isn't just a case of 'accessible to the handicapped', man.

[–] Hazzard@lemm.ee 8 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

That's a fair argument then, but... this is literally what accessibility means, whether or not you can "access" the thing.

If someone isn't willing to invest the time or frustration into Souls, then fair enough, but that's a matter of priorities/convenience, not a matter of accessibility.

Also, frankly, the difficulty of Souls for regular people is insanely overblown. Stuff like "Prepare to Die" is just a marketing gimmick, and the games have become substantially easier and more flexible over time. Like in Elden Ring, where you can leave bosses for later, and can frequently just bypass them entirely, experiment with an insane variety of builds, use effective ways to grind ridiculous amounts of souls, and just generally become ridiculously powerful. They've done essentially everything but creating an explicit "easy mode" to make the game playable for as many people as possible. If you want an easy mode, basically every souls game has builds or guides that function as that easy mode.

[–] CleoTheWizard@lemmy.world 9 points 3 hours ago

Difficulty counts as an access barrier. You always have to consider that there are people who, for whatever reason, have a skill capacity that is lower than required for the game in question. And for those people the game will be inaccessible.

Time is also an accessibility factor. If a person with a disability or lower skill has to grind and extend the playtime for 3-4x what a normal player would have, that’s not inaccessible but it’s less accessible comparatively. Especially if that kills the fun.

That being said obviously these things can be tweaked within reason and the problem can’t be solved for every player unfortunately. And they don’t need to be. Some games can just be too hard for some players.

The ultimate point for me just seems to be that the community needs to be listened to. You shouldn’t ever be in the positions as a dev where you are telling disabled or low skill gamers to get good or no dice. If a large portion of people are saying “I’d love to enjoy the art you’ve made, but I can’t. My disability/inability is stopping me” then I’d change my approach.

I think there is a balance that can be struck, grinding is one of the balances and you’re right there are ways to make those games easier that way. But the other people are also right, the games need to be hard sometimes. I just want people to stop being dismissive of people who want to enjoy the same entertainment and art but can’t just because of difficulty.

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[–] rockerface@lemm.ee 12 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

For mechanically difficult games, definitely agree. Celeste is an example I usually bring up - it's a platformer that can get pretty tough at times, especially in the after-story optional levels. But it also has one of the most flexible and useful accessibility modes I've ever seen. It allows you to adjust basically every aspect of the game a player might struggle with (game speed, additional jumps, timed mechanics, you name it). And the game itself is very good as well.

[–] moonlight@fedia.io 5 points 6 hours ago

It also has a different sort of difficulty. It's all in bite size chunks, and you can try again immediately. It never feels punishing in the way Souls games do.

[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 2 points 6 hours ago

I agree. It's a good think FromSoft doesn't make difficult games. They make challenging games. Their games can be trivialize by meeting it on its own terms. If you pay attention to what things are weak to, it's often pretty easy. Also, you always have the option to level up and improve your situation. Outside of secondary content, everything is easy, but it wants to challenge you to see if you're paying attention. The issue is this is abnormal for modern games, so it's seen by some as being hard. Modern gamers expect to have their hands held, which I don't think developers should always oblige if it weakens the intended experience.

[–] AceFuzzLord@lemm.ee -1 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (1 children)

One thing I've never understood is devs making a game that is 100% intended to be difficult to complete and then some people come along to said game that has essentially been advertised as a hard game and complaining it's too hard and an easy mode should be implemented for them.

Not every game needs an easy mode and I fully support the idea that devs shouldn't have to put in an easy mode because people think a game is too hard. Especially if it's a souls game. They've never been easy and hopefully never will be.

[–] Venator@lemmy.nz 1 points 24 minutes ago* (last edited 18 minutes ago)

Not saying they should have to, just saying it would be better if it had it.

I don't really enjoy the way hardness is implemented in souls like games: long health bars just make the game take longer and make it boring for me, so I don't play them. That's OK if they don't want my money 🤷

I know there's also the argument that a lot of players wouldn't bother with the hard mode if easy was available and you're denying the players that experience if you implement easy mode, but I think it's a flawed argument because if you add any small incentive to play on hard mode such as a simple cosmetic reward that's enough to incentivise most players to do it.

[–] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 17 points 8 hours ago

I've never had vitriol spewed at me quite like when I argue in favor of easy mode for soulslike games. I'm at a point where I hate soulslike games, half because I don't want to spend ten hours on a boss that I can't beat, and half because I don't want to associate with soulsborne players

[–] jettrscga@lemmy.world 138 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

I love how all the comments insist on discussing the difficulty, despite OP literally pointing it out as bait.

That's good bait.

[–] AgentGrimstone@lemmy.world 28 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

I know it's bait. I'm just looking for an opportunity to unload.

[–] mosiacmango@lemm.ee 22 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

The circle of "just want to feel something" wraps round and round.

[–] JoeKrogan@lemmy.world 29 points 13 hours ago (6 children)

Easy mode ftw. I've only got so much free time. I wanna chill when I'm gaming.

[–] abbotsbury@lemmy.world 12 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

Counterpoint: not every game needs to be chill

[–] carpelbridgesyndrome@sh.itjust.works 3 points 8 hours ago (3 children)

It's a choice. You don't have to take it

[–] BroBot9000@lemmy.world 4 points 7 hours ago

Yes it’s a choice, but there need to be games that are difficult for that choice matter.

Many hard modes are just bullet sponges and extra grinding.

Where else can we find difficult games that are meant to be difficult in every aspect and not just a tacked on mode with larger health numbers?

That’s what souls games are. If you want an easy mode play ER or a different game. Not every game is designed for you.

[–] abbotsbury@lemmy.world 3 points 7 hours ago

The choice existing would impact how players play, which may also go against the artistic vision. You don't have to play a non-chill game.

You can also choose to play a game designed to be easy. A game like hotline Miami on “chill mode” is not the same as the actually hard hotline Miami.

If you want to just walk from cut scene to cut scene just watch someone else play the game.

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[–] v4ld1z@lemmy.zip 6 points 9 hours ago

For anyone interested, shameless plug: !soulslike@lemmy.zip

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