this post was submitted on 22 Nov 2024
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THE POLICE PROBLEM

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    The police problem is that police are policed by the police. Cops are accountable only to other cops, which is no accountability at all.

    99.9999% of police brutality, corruption, and misconduct is never investigated, never punished, never makes the news, so it's not on this page.

    When cops are caught breaking the law, they're investigated by other cops. Details are kept quiet, the officers' names are withheld from public knowledge, and what info is eventually released is only what police choose to release — often nothing at all.

    When police are fired — which is all too rare — they leave with 'law enforcement experience' and can easily find work in another police department nearby. It's called "Wandering Cops."

    When police testify under oath, they lie so frequently that cops themselves have a joking term for it: "testilying." Yet it's almost unheard of for police to be punished or prosecuted for perjury.

    Cops can and do get away with lawlessness, because cops protect other cops. If they don't, they aren't cops for long.

    The legal doctrine of "qualified immunity" renders police officers invulnerable to lawsuits for almost anything they do. In practice, getting past 'qualified immunity' is so unlikely, it makes headlines when it happens.

    All this is a path to a police state.

    In a free society, police must always be under serious and skeptical public oversight, with non-cops and non-cronies in charge, issuing genuine punishment when warranted.

    Police who break the law must be prosecuted like anyone else, promptly fired if guilty, and barred from ever working in law-enforcement again.

    That's the solution.

♦ ♦ ♦

Our definition of ‘cops’ is broad, and includes prison guards, probation officers, shitty DAs and judges, etc — anyone who has the authority to fuck over people’s lives, with minimal or no oversight.

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Three words. 70 cases. The tragic history of 'I can’t breathe' (as of 2020)

Police aren't primarily about helping you or solving crimes.

Police lie under oath, a lot

Police spin: An object lesson in Copspeak

Police unions and arbitrators keep abusive cops on the street

Shielded from Justice: Police Brutality and Accountability in the United States

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When the police knock on your door

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The woman, Talisa Coombs, told Delaney she’d just gotten into what she alleged was a physical altercation with her granddaughter’s mother, Maria Pike, and called 911. Independence police’s response to that 911 call ended with the shooting death of Pike, 34, and her two month old daughter, Destinii Hope — who were identified Tuesday by authorities from the Police Involved Investigative Team, or PIIT, a team of eastern Jackson County detectives called in to investigate police shootings and use-of-force incidents.

The officer who fired his weapon was “a long-tenured veteran of law enforcement,” Dustman said. That officer and another two who were at the scene are on administrative leave.

https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article295483354.html

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[–] meowMix2525@lemm.ee 15 points 1 day ago

the Police Involved Investigative Team, or PIIT, a team of eastern Jackson County detectives called in to investigate police shootings and use-of-force incidents.

They have a special task force of cops to investigate cop shootings in what looks like a single county.

Of course they do. Why am I surprised.

I guess this explains why they only solve just over a third of all violent crimes that happen in this country. They're too busy investigating themselves and finding nothing wrong.

[–] FabledAepitaph@lemmy.world 68 points 2 days ago (3 children)

If you explode a baby's head with a gun, let's just skip the trial and send 'em straight to prison for the rest of their life because there's nothing left for you in this world. Your humanity card has been withdrawn.

[–] bamboo@lemmy.blahaj.zone 19 points 1 day ago (1 children)

if I had killed a little kid, accidentally or otherwise, I wouldn't have thought twice. I'd killed myself on the fucking spot. On the fucking spot. I would've stuck the gun in me mouth. On the fucking spot!

[–] Dasus@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago (2 children)

And the psyche of the cops is so bent that instead they go like "oh.. whoops. my bad, guys, my bad."

[–] Treczoks@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

They don't admit guilt. It is against Union rules. So forget about the "my bad".

[–] Dasus@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

Yeah I was overly optimistic when writing that comment, mb

[–] beebarfbadger@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Not at all, they go "who can I blame for this?", and then they set out to destroy that one's life or legacy.

[–] Dasus@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

Fuck. True enough

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[–] Realitaetsverlust@lemmy.zip 23 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Pretty sure that damn criminal baby pulled a submachine gun out of his pillow ... The officer just defended himself. God bless him and his family. <3

[–] lightnsfw@reddthat.com 9 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] modus@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago (2 children)

What the hell is the context of that photo?

[–] Ostrichgrif@lemmy.world 18 points 1 day ago (1 children)

A prompt and tens of dollars of electricity

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[–] PanArab@lemm.ee 29 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I saw part of one US police training video, and I'm not surprised by this outcome. They are brainwashed to fear for themselves and believe everyone is trying to kill them. Doesn't justify the crime, but this could have been any other cop, and it isn't enough to hold that one cop accountable.

If this was a war, this would have been a warcrime and the guilt falls on not just the soldier who fired the shot.

[–] Nuke_the_whales@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago (1 children)

They're also armed to the gills and like to pretend they're soldiers. They behave like an occupying army and treat everyone like a potential threat because that's what they think war is.

[–] PanArab@lemm.ee 1 points 1 day ago

They do train with the Israeli army which polices the occupied West Bank.

[–] stormeuh@lemmy.world 66 points 2 days ago (3 children)

The passive voice writing in this article is as usual playing defense for the police.

Independence police’s response to that 911 call ended with the shooting death of Pike, 34, and her two month old daughter, Destinii Hope. Let me rephrase this in a less passive way. The response to that 911 call from the independence police officer ended with him shooting Pike, 34 and her two month old daughter, Destinii Hope, to death.

I'm not implying this specific author or newspaper are writing in this style out of malice. I think this is part of a problem with the culture in journalism, because most articles on police violence are written this way.

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[–] JustJack23@slrpnk.net 21 points 2 days ago (1 children)
[–] Dasus@lemmy.world 20 points 1 day ago

The baby was resting, but the cops were illiterate as usual, so...

[–] ansiz@lemmy.world 29 points 2 days ago (1 children)

This city sounds like a shitshow, Social Services came the day before to take the baby but no one answered the door so they just left? They didn't even check with the apartment management office? My mom used to do that for a living and would always have the police come with her for any situation like that.

It obviously was a bad situation before the cops showed up, but the father was right to not let them in at first. This situation is exactly what the 'defund the police' slogan was aiming at, Social Services should have definitely responded with the police, really any time the police believe a child is involved.

[–] BeMoreCareful@lemmy.world 9 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Idk about social services in other places, but I had a buddy that was a social worker. His caseload was something like eight times higher than it should have been. Trying to get in touch weekly with people who don't want to see you. You can try to prioritize to the best of your knowledge, but there's only so much you can do.

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[–] todd_bonzalez@lemm.ee 61 points 2 days ago (5 children)

No shit she reached for a knife. She had every right to stab that officer to death after he blew her baby's brains out right in front of her.

[–] RidderSport@feddit.org 18 points 2 days ago

Yeah, if this were a criminal case in my country it would look like this: murder(+?)/manslaughter on the child (+) no justification, not in the line of duty (+), ergo (+); manslaughter mother (+), justification? Self-defense? Mother herself justified? No imminent attack, child OS already dead, but her attack excused. Self defense possible for the officer, but self-defense provocation at least carelessly, most likely on purpose = heavy reduction of self-defense measures to basically just evasion and restraining, using the firearm in excess of that = not justifiable; possible excuse excess of violence for self-defense, caused the situation and escalated it beyond anything reasonable, better trained and armed, not excusable = manslaughter on the mother (+)

This would likely get you life in prison (so earliest parol after 15 years) here. And I doubt this would be something any officer or DA would dare to burn their hands over to cover up, as they would be held accountable for that coverup or meddling and go to prison themselves

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[–] NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world 205 points 3 days ago (4 children)

"On administrative leave", Jesus fucking christ, fire and prosecute those fuck heads. This is well beyond gross negligence.

[–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 139 points 3 days ago (3 children)

Sentencing guidelines should automatically double sentences for law enforcement and government officials, regardless of the crime.

[–] Milk_Sheikh@lemm.ee 59 points 2 days ago
[–] TheReturnOfPEB@reddthat.com 72 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

"Wrongful Death Offender List" should be a thing.

And it should be run by citizens.

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[–] I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world 9 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Ok, I think this needs to be explained because people don't understand the whole "on administrative leave" thing. It's not a slap on the wrist, it's the first step they have to take to fire him.

Cops have unions. One of the things those unions have put in place is that most cops can not immediately just be fired except in extremely narrow and specific circumstances. Beyond those circumstances, there has to be an investigation. During the investigation, the cop is placed on administrative leave. Even if it's super cut and dry, statements still need to be taken, a report still has to be written, and it's gotta go through the whole process.

Now, do these investigations often get intentionally delayed? Yes. Do they often come out weeks or months later saying "cop did nothing wrong, everyone move along." Also yes. But the point is administrative leave is not the punishment and does not mean that consequences aren't going to be coming. Saying "Why put them on administrative leave? Just fire them!" is kind of like saying "Why fill out the forms HR needs to fire them? Just fire them!" It's a process, and administrative leave is the first step.

[–] NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Im fairly certain shooting a 2 month old in the head qualifies for immediate prosecution. What's the report going to say, he felt threatened by the 2 month old rattling their toys at him?

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[–] MeaanBeaan@lemmy.world 121 points 2 days ago

The officer who fired his weapon was “a long-tenured veteran of law enforcement,” Dustman said.

So who else has he murdered in cold blood?

[–] satanmat@lemmy.world 153 points 3 days ago (4 children)

Greenfield believes police could have used different methods to de-escalate the situation.

No effing shit Sherlock

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[–] Chip_Rat@lemmy.world 83 points 2 days ago (5 children)

My dad used to use this technique to settle disputes: "if you are gonna fight over it, neither of you can have it!"

Though I don't recall him ever shooting a baby in the face so maybe these cops need more training.

Or some fucking lead to their own foreheads.

Is that too far? No. No I don't think it is.

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[–] werefreeatlast@lemmy.world 30 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I see some nasty comments on here. So I will add mine adjusted to the popo. The popo are basically criminal goons contracted by the city to ruin brown and black people's lives. Every single day there's gotta be some but of news where they end one of our brothers or sisters lives. Why do we let them do that to us?

Sure there are bad people who need to be in jail. Trump for example. But only the regular folks like you and I get to go to jail. Only our lives can be ruined. Touch the glass ceiling for long enough and you get to be slammed teeth first into the pavement for a supposed traffic violation which ended up with some baggies full of funny powder. Those fucking assholes are everywhere. It's time to abolish the police and instead enforce some sort of social help.

[–] JovialMicrobial@lemm.ee 25 points 2 days ago (1 children)

My husband is brown, and had a cop intentionally try to antagonize him into responding emotionally so the cop could violently arrest him.

Used aggressive language, threats to bring him to the station, veiled threats alluding to a guy who had been paralyzed and left in a coma by police the week before. It was sick and fucked up. It left my husband literally shaking afterwards. I've never seen him scared like that. I hate that cop with every fiber of my being. My husband is a gentle, kind, and loving person just trying to get his car fixed.

His offense that got him pulled over? Going to the mechanic to get his car fixed so it would pass emissions and we could update the registration.

To folks reading this, cops will absolutely try to antagonize you and escalate the situation. Don't let them. It gives them every excuse to shoot you and get away with it.

Cops can go fuck themselves to death.

[–] werefreeatlast@lemmy.world 11 points 2 days ago

My worst experience was one time driving with my old man. I was a kid at the time in 6th grade. Probably the shortest skinniest and we both are nerd types wearing glasses. He was already in his 50s or 60s, white hair and all. Anyway he was driving his old dodge ram which had a steering problem. Some might know what I'm talking about...you tighten up the steering one week and then next week it's a little loose, like you pull straight and it either goes left or right. So you constantly had to turn the car left or right the entire time. So the cop naturally pulls us over that night 4 blocks from the house. "Why were you swerving!!". My dad didn't speak English so I had to translate to the office that was a mechanical issue. So I was like, I'll get off so I can explain. I opened the door and this other cop who I hadn't noticed just rammed the fucking door on my face. And I'm supposed to love and respect these fucks? And I won't go into detail on what they did to my dad with his heart bypass, glasses and visible frail. Fuck cops. I didn't turn into Elon musk and have my own musk flying rocket, super underground digging machine, battery making company or car making company. But I am a successful regular person and I don't need a fucking cop in my daily commute but every day I have to drive exactly 20mph in front of a school or the cop will pull me over. I've seen the cop pull over cars going 21mph. It's like dude, 21mph is still fine! I'm driving 16 to 19, just trying to stay alive. Oh and then there's these other two sections of the road. One has a tree with dark shadows....and a fucking cop in there hiding. The other is a sharp turn on a freeway ramp...and a fucking cop waiting for you in case you like to joy turn into the freeway. Fucking cops.

[–] T00l_shed@lemmy.world 139 points 3 days ago (13 children)
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[–] MTK@lemmy.world 27 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I swear, cops will shoot anything that moves, and then anything that doesn't, and then anything else.

[–] wurstgulasch3000@lemmy.world 17 points 2 days ago (2 children)

And then fire blindly at nothing at all (see the acorn incident)

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[–] BigMacHole@lemm.ee 30 points 2 days ago

The ONLY way this could have been Prevented was if that BABY Had a Gun and shot FIRST! But of Course if you Shoot a Cop you Deserve Death so there's LITERALLY NO WAY for this 2 Month Old Baby to have ended up Alive (In America!)!

[–] Valmond@lemmy.world 17 points 2 days ago (7 children)

The USA never heard of tasers?

I mean you shouldn't tase everyone but at least if you shoot someone with it at least they are taken out of the equation with a high chance of survival.

[–] BigDanishGuy@sh.itjust.works 21 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

I don't want to defend the police here. It seems like they're more than capable of defending themselves against toddlers and innocent people sleeping in their homes.

What I will say though is on the efficiency of tasers. They're grrrreat, if you get skin contact with both electrodes, on the first try. But both prongs must hit, pierce the clothing, and get skin contact. Reloading the taser, or switching to the side arm, can take too long. There's a lot of myths about what will stop a taser, and I guess that some of the myths are affecting cops in their choice of force method.

But going for the gun on a disturbance call about a woman with a baby and the baby's grandmother? And shooting the baby? What, as the baby identified as an armed and dangerous fugitive?

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